In this episode of the Priority Lane podcast, host Nigel catt speaks with Lawrence Dauncey, a seasoned professional in sales and business development. They discuss the importance of prioritization in achieving success, the human element in business interactions, and the significance of resilience and empathy. Lawrence shares insights from his extensive career, emphasizing the need for open communication, reliability, and the ability to adapt to changing market conditions. The conversation also touches on historical events, such as the introduction of canned beer, to illustrate the impact of timing and market behavior.
Resilience is key to overcoming failures in business.
Empathy and listening are crucial for successful sales.
Prioritizing responsibilities leads to better work-life balance.
Open communication fosters trust and reliability.
The human element should be at the forefront of marketing strategies.
Timing plays a significant role in business success.
Adaptation to new technologies is essential for growth.
Building long-term relationships is more valuable than quick wins.
Honesty and being oneself are fundamental in business.
Managing expectations is vital for client relationships.
Sound Bites
"Empathy is crucial in sales."
"The world is run by people."
"You have to adapt with the times."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Prioritization and Success
02:04 Lawrence Daunsey: Strengths and Resilience in Business
05:56 The Importance of Empathy and Listening
07:45 Identifying and Treating Priorities in Sales and Marketing
12:02 Historical Insight: The First Canned Beer and Market Timing
17:53 The Human Element in Business and Sales
24:05 Adapting to Technology and Changing Market Behaviors
31:30 The Importance of Listening and Zero Hierarchy
32:48 Prioritizing Time and Responsibilities
37:01 Managing Expectations and Communication
46:00 Building Long-Term Business Relationships
48:00 The Value of Being Yourself and Honest
Nigel:
Welcome to the Priority Lane podcast, the show where we explore the power of prioritizing and how successful people use this to achieve real growth by doing less, but doing it better. I'm your host Nigel Kat, and each episode I sit down with leaders, creators, and top performing professionals to uncover how they filter out the noise, focus on what matters, and discuss the techniques they use to build success based on clarity, not chaos.
Nigel:
We'll also take time out and delve back into history to uncover bizarre or unusual events and discover how far focus, discipline and a bit of human curiosity can take us. If you're ready to step into your priority lane, you're in the right place. Now, our guest for this episode is Lawrence Dawnsey. Lawrence has been involved in sales and business development for 30 years across industries like finance, legal, automotive, hospitality, local government, pharma, and the list goes on.
Nigel:
He's had his own boutique event agency business until COVID forced it to close. And since then he's been consulting for different businesses and now is the country manager for UK and Ireland for My Brokers app. Lawrence, welcome to the podcast and how are you today?
Lawrence:
Hi guys, thank you very much for the invitation, I'm following a little bit of snow yesterday here in the UK, it's cleared up after 10 minutes so slightly disappointed. How are you?
Nigel:
Yeah, very good. Thank you. Well, we're at the other end of the spectrum. had 42 today in Melbourne and it's down to 33 at the moment as we speak.
Lawrence:
Are you alright?
Nigel:
So, now do you want to give us a bit of insight into Lawrence Daunsey the man and specifically what you think your greatest strengths are and how have you used or prioritized these throughout your life and how they have led to where you are now. I see you've got a very strong background in sales business development. So what makes Lawrence tick and make you so good at that?
Lawrence:
Well, firstly, what a compliment. I don't think professed to say was good at it, but I'm still here three decades later. I guess for me, strengths wise, there's a number of things I think for business. One is resilience, empathy, being able to see opportunities that perhaps others haven't, making sure that you...
Lawrence:
do what you say you're going to do and always listening and be open to new thoughts opinions ideas no matter where they come from so you know for me resilience that I've just mentioned I think is is a key focus because we never always get it right every time so it's important to just shrug those you know...
Lawrence:
those losses off or you know the ones that didn't quite come off and you know not take it personally and just keep going I think you know that's that's something that I've always always done you probably remember we've we worked together a long time ago about 27 years ago and you may remember that you know the the sales technique or the business technique we were taught which was very aggressive we needed real thick skin if you remember
Nigel:
Yeah, yeah, no, exactly right. And look, I've also watched a lot of documentaries and read stories about successful people, great inventors that change the world with their inventions and technologies and no one ever got it right first time. They were all failures before they were successful. So the only difference between them and other people is that
Lawrence:
Yeah, true.
Nigel:
They picked themselves off the map and gave it another go. And it was that final go that the world remembers them for. It doesn't remember their failures. It remembers their successes. So yeah, resilience, hanging in there and backing yourself.
Lawrence:
Yeah, that was, know, that was obviously, as I said, that's a key one, you know, for anybody starting in business, any, I don't know, any, you know, youngsters straight out of, you know, graduating or whatever going to their job is to, you know, have resilience and energy and also the enthusiasm and desire to just get stuff done. think, you know, that's, I think that that's missing somewhat perhaps in, you know, the newer generation. I don't know.
Lawrence:
I think empathy that I mentioned is hugely important because for me it's all about the human element and being able to listen to people whether you're buying or selling is hugely important because at the end of the day we're people.
Lawrence:
That's the listening that comes into it for me. think it's very, very important, you know, whether you're selling something or whether you're buying is to listen to your buyer, your seller to really establish whether or not you can, you have something that they need or they want. so yeah, I think as I said, sorry, the, you know, doing what you say that you're going to do is again, massive. That's something that I've always made sure that,
Nigel:
Well then.
Lawrence:
I put in the priority lane for me is if you tell a client that you will do something by a specific time or day, make sure you do it. For me it's just common courtesy.
Nigel:
Yeah. So along your journey, have you turned down opportunities that, you know, may have been successful, but just didn't feel right for you? For, well, look, I can do this, but my heart's not in it. I'm just going to stick true to myself and, prioritize my journey and where I want to go.
Lawrence:
For sure, There have been, I'm sure, many people. Offers come along or an opportunity comes along that looks good. But I think for me, was always important to manage expectations, what I felt I was comfortable and happy with and did it fit in with my ethic, that sort of thing.
Lawrence:
So yeah, I agree, I have done that. I'm not saying that those opportunities that I passed over weren't successful, but if it's not for you, then be confident enough and aware enough to make that decision and move on.
Nigel:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. mean, it's I think was mentioned in a in an earlier podcast about if you do what you're passionate about, never work a day in your life.
Lawrence:
That is absolutely correct. Yes, it's very true.
Nigel:
Now this podcast, The Priority Lane, is about prioritizing things that are important, whether they be in personal or business life and how business leaders or leaders in their field exemplify this. Now you have a strong marketing and sales background. I want to ask how you identify things that are a priority and then just as important, ensure that they are treated as a priority.
Nigel:
And I'm particularly interested in the sales and marketing as this is an area that is crucial for all businesses and an area that is getting increasingly bombarded by new technologies, new, whether they be gimmicks, fads or actual changes in technology, changes in the way people can market themselves. How do you, how do you find how to find what is a priority for you and what you're trying to achieve and then to make sure that is treated as a priority?
Lawrence:
I mean, this is a very great question, a deep question too, to be fair. You mentioned, you know, the advent of technology and how quickly it develops and moves forward and, you know, the adaptation that we all have to kind of adopt in order to keep up or, you know, not be left behind, so to speak. And for me, in terms of sales and marketing, you remember yourself so many
Nigel:
Yeah.
Lawrence:
you know, years ago, how things have changed. And I think, as I mentioned earlier, the human element is something that I always put at the forefront because, you know, the world is, you know, developed and run and ideas and technology is created by people, right? So, you know, for me, I really like to focus on that human element in my sales and marketing and any business development.
Lawrence:
plan that come up with because this is who you want to reach. So your target market, your route to market for me is it's all about the human element. So, whereas a lot of people nowadays not hide, but they prefer to be contacted via email or what I call behind the scenes.
Lawrence:
Because that way, if they don't answer, you're not sure whether they got that sort of thing. Whereas when I first started my career back in mid 90s, we got on the phone. People spoke to each other. It wasn't necessarily a very aggressive cold calling. But the fact is, we didn't have that technology back then. Mobile phones and all the apps and all those sorts. We didn't have that.
Lawrence:
we had to speak to people, you know, and I hold that in high regard still, obviously not the process of cold calling and annoying and rude to people as we were, but you know, the people aspect is a massive focus for me and so that's what I stick with, you know.
Nigel:
Okay.
Nigel:
So yeah, and you're right. So the advent of this new technology basically almost becomes a shield for some people. Yeah, or an excuse for not making that direct contact.
Lawrence:
I fix it.
Lawrence:
correct you know and I think from a sales perspective if you ask yourself truly what is sales really you know and for me it is basically you're trying to sell a product that someone doesn't know okay from a person that they don't know so of course they're going to they're immediately on the on the back foot I don't I don't know but
Lawrence:
If you don't listen or take the chance to listen to somebody about a new product or a new company that has a product, how are you going to know whether it actually streamline your business or least give you a springboard to do better? How do you know? That's a question that I always put to potential clients.
Nigel:
Well...
Nigel:
Yeah, I look that's a great point and look this is a great segue into our historical event as you know Lawrence a chapter so pardon me we delve into a quirky historical fact of the month that we're in which happens to be January. Today we're going to talk about the first canned beer. I assume you're familiar with beer and the concept of putting it in a can?
Lawrence:
I have a limited knowledge on that, yes.
Nigel:
Okay, do you want to have a stab at which country actually produced the first canned bee?
Lawrence:
I don't know, I'm gonna go somewhere like Belgium.
Nigel:
It was America. That was an easy one. Okay, so let's have a chat about it. So the first can beer is produced. We really would not want to live in a world without cold can beer. From January 24, 1935, we no longer had to. That was when Gottfried Kruger Brewing Company and the American Can Company teamed up to put cans of Kruger's Creme Ale and Kruger's finest beer in the stores of Richmond, Virginia for the first time.
Lawrence:
Yeah.
Nigel:
Cans had long been established way of containing food and the concept of supplying beer in this way had been kicked around since 1909. However, it was not until prohibition was repealed in 1933 that the American Can Company hit on the idea of a can featuring a coating of an animal and brewers pitch. This was designed to stop the bead reacting against the metal, which affected the taste and color. Also a pressurized can
Nigel:
controlled the internal precious cause by pasteurization. The first brewery willing to take a chance on the cans was Kruger. But even when the results met with public approval ratings of over 90%, it didn't persuade the other breweries. It was only when rivals like Einhauser-Busch found their market shares falling as a result of the new Canbier that they changed their minds. By the time 1935 ended,
Nigel:
more than 200 million canned beers had been sold in the US. Now, that's some growth And for a product which you just mentioned before, that didn't exist. No one knew about this product. It didn't exist at the start of the year. And by year's end, they sold more than 200 million. Certainly, we know where the Americans' consumer's priorities laid coming out of prohibition. Have you ever been involved with a business that experienced such extraordinary growth?
Lawrence:
Wow, firstly, what a history lesson. That's staggering figures, considering 1935, what was the population of the US at the time?
Nigel:
you
Nigel:
Ah, well, I'm glad you asked, Lawrence, because I've been doing my research. And the population in the US in 1935 was 127 million. And 15, yeah, 50, 50 million of these were under the age of 21, which means basically every person legally able to buy the product did so about three times on average. So I think I ticked that off as a successful launch. Don't know how you'd rate it.
Lawrence:
Go on.
Lawrence:
I was gonna say.
Lawrence:
As I said, that's a staggering success story. My only thing with where my brain works is, you mentioned the brewery Kruger, well that's not an American name, it's German. So I'm not gonna say it was America, I'll say it was German instead of Belgian. I was close. Exactly, so, but yeah, a staggering set of...
Nigel:
and also one of the bush.
Lawrence:
figures there, Nig, I've never been involved with something that has had that sort of overnight success. But I think one of the key words why that worked and why it was so successful is timing without a shadow of a doubt. And I think any major business or if you speak to any of the current planet's billionaires, you you ask them,
Lawrence:
weather timing of any of their deals that they've had that have been successful was a factor, I'm pretty sure they'll say it was. And also, if you think now, I would say maybe 10, 15 years ago, a simple marketing model was age, sex, lifestyle. So if you had a new product or you're trying to push it to market, those three things, you'd
Nigel:
Yeah.
Lawrence:
What age group are we targeting? What sex are they? Male, female, for example. And what is their lifestyle? Do they work in the city? That sort of thing, right? And a good example of that was Bacardi Breezer. I'm not sure if you remember those. So, you know, they were on the market for, I don't think, any more than maybe 18 months to three, two, three years. It was not a one hit wonder, but they were so popular because they targeted...
Nigel:
Yes, yep.
Lawrence:
young women who were affluent you know and like worked in the city for example and they used you know things like flavors like melon so it was all about vocabulary as well which is you know I think certainly important yeah I've but those I'm said those whether that worked you know for the Kruger Brewery back in 1930s I have no idea but they obviously
Nigel:
and
Lawrence:
Whoever came up with the idea and the timing, like you say, post prohibition, I mean, that's genius. It's stroke of luck.
Nigel:
Well, yeah, and especially in the industry that they're in. mean, they don't just have to promote their product. They have to change people's behavior in what can be quite a personal and even parochial activity of beer drinking. So drawing on your experience, do you see as the keys in changing market behavior or perceptions, whether it be in the beverage industry or any other industry?
Lawrence:
Yeah, as I said, know, something I keep touching on is, is, know, the, human element of it. we are, we're now unashamedly, we are a, I think a species of convenience and, you know, in speed, if we can get what we need, quicker, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna jump on that. but as I said, behind that is still somebody, there is still somebody creating, you know, at
Lawrence:
there's the technology. So, you know, and as you mentioned earlier, that it's like a screen, like they're hiding behind the technology. And, I'd really like to see people start talking to people again. You know, I think it's a dying art. It's something that we, you know, we've got vocal chords for a reason, you know, apart from singing in the shower, which I understand you do poorly. Yeah.
Nigel:
You
Nigel:
You understand incorrectly.
Lawrence:
I just think it would be so nice to, you know, if people in business, we, you know, we start to, you know, we talk to each other more. You know, the COVID, I worked, I had my own little boutique event agency business, was, which was so, it was just running fantastically well. And unfortunately COVID, you know, forced me to close that because a hundred percent of my, the events that I managed and ran and operated were,
Lawrence:
face to face, they were in person and of course COVID you couldn't do that. So a hundred percent of my business stopped because, know, I didn't have the, me personally, I didn't have the resources to do, everyone migrated to the sort of, you know, the webinar system and online portals. And I just didn't have the infrastructure to work with that. Plus it just wasn't something that, you know, I was, I was interested in doing. I wanted to bring people together.
Nigel:
Yeah.
Lawrence:
So, you know, I think for me it's, I'd like to see, you know, the human element a lot more. You know, the conferences and exhibitions that still run globally, I think are great. I love that, you know, because that, and I think people who go, really enjoy that interaction. But I'd also like to see, I would like to see people not be so frightened of taking a, you know, an unsolicited email, an unsolicited call.
Lawrence:
You know, because you just never know. you know, and the other thing I would like to, and I, I'd like to, you know, push is I'm a big fan of, you know, keeping an open mind and, and listening to any idea, you know, as I said before, from, from, from wherever it may be, I'm a big fan of zero hierarchy business model, you know, because everybody for me, you know, the team I had in, uh, in my event agency, everybody.
Lawrence:
I made sure I wanted to hear from them. Come and tell me if you've got an idea of how we can do something better or make the experience better, tell me. I want to hear it. I'm a big believer in the zero hierarchy model because if are not open to everyone that's with you or works with you and what they might have in their
Lawrence:
recesses of their brain, I just think you're missing a trick. So yeah, the human element for me is hugely important.
Nigel:
Do you think that I take your point and it's true about people not being open to to entertain or consider new ideas or approaches. Do think that's changed over the last 30 years because there is that that email culture and once email established it wasn't long before marketers found it and know spammers were spamming everyone that
Nigel:
came a time where people said, well, I'm sick of this. I'm not going to entertain any new ideas from anyone that I don't know.
Lawrence:
Yeah, I mean, you know yourself, Nigel, it's, know, business and marketing, sales, approaches, routes to market, all that has changed in the last 30 years, hugely, you know, for the reasons that we talked about, you know, a few minutes ago. But yeah, I think, you know, that it's a bit difficult sometimes if you have to, you know, perhaps adopt, well, if I'm not with them, I'm against them. So you kind of fall into the email culture.
Lawrence:
which I suppose it's a softer way of getting in touch with people. The cold calling technique where if you remember 30 years ago it was very abrasive, that's not going to work anymore. And of course, I think what proves my point on the human element is that most businesses that have clients or suppliers, they know those people personally pretty well already.
Lawrence:
you've got to, so why do they stick with them? Because they know them, they trust them. know, trust is another massive word like timing. know, trust is a huge, huge word in business because you know, if you're, if a supplier that you eventually go, okay, I'm going to, we're going to take a contract out with them, we're going to pay them to provide this service. Generally, you're going to work with people that you know, or you've met before, or you've been recommended to. So,
Lawrence:
For me, that just proves the human element that I've mentioned is right. It's very difficult to walk into or get on the phone or walk into a boardroom for your first meeting and come away with the sale, should we say. They don't know you. They don't know your product. They don't know your company. So this is why for me, getting in person, face to face with someone to be able to promote or discuss what you might have that could help, I think is a...
Nigel:
Yeah.
Lawrence:
It needs to be done more, really.
Nigel:
And that, you're right. And that creates an opportunity for people, say, like yourself, very comfortable with that human element, that human interaction. If society is moving away that aren't as, now there's less people as comfortable as you doing that, that's an opportunity for you to say, well, hang on, I've got a bigger, a bigger share of the market here. I can go out there and I'm a point of difference to people.
Lawrence:
Yes, but you know potentially but again, you know is what we touched on it It's it's difficult to you know, I can make a phone call I can send an email and say listen, you know, have a look at this You know if you want to if you need more information or whatever check the website Which is the standard sort of protocol that we all use, you know, but I always offer listen I'm I'm more than happy to come and visit you or meet you anywhere you like You know to because I believe in what I have, you know, it's
Lawrence:
you know, I know for a fact that it is going to make you more successful in your business. You know, think the difference 30 years ago is, you know, when you're a youngster and you're getting on the phone, cause that's your only mode of, you know, contacting someone or a potential client is do you really believe in, what you you're offering? Yeah. Whereas now, you know, 30 years later, I'm, I know exactly what I have and I know that it's,
Lawrence:
100 % going to help people. The difficulty is convincing someone they had who you had never spoken to before they don't know you to go, all right, Lawrence, we'll meet. We'll have a zoom zoom call, whatever it might be. and that actually, that's the hurdle, you know, and even if something is free, trying to get someone to, you know, have that two minute conversation, five minute conversation with you is really, really difficult because I feel
Lawrence:
you know the advent of technology which we've mentioned and everything is pretty much app based you know a prime example I was watching one of the streaming TV streaming platforms I won't mention which because I'm not going to give them airtime and they haven't played it and all of a sudden up on the home screen was an advertisement for
Lawrence:
a foreign car maker, again I won't give them their time, and it quite simply said on the left, download the app here for the info, there was a picture of the car, I think it was an electric vehicle with its range of whatever it is, 28 miles or whatever they do, know, it the range and it had, you know, price and something else, so there was just very bullet point
Lawrence:
But there were just bullet points under the car on the left was click here to download the app to view and at the bottom it said press up on your remote control to buy now Right and I I had I do know of the manufacturer But I'm you know, I'm not I'm still You know internal combustion engine man be fair, you know, I drive a three-liter straight six
Lawrence:
BMW from about 25 years ago because I like to keep everyone warm so You know the So for me, I just found I sat there and thought wow and I even took a picture of it with my phone Because I just found that marketing it's like this is this is a sales technique and marketing technique that I've never used you know Particularly being an unknown download here. Oh, okay
Nigel:
You
Nigel:
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence:
and number of people that must have downloaded it must be huge. So how do you measure the marketing trend now if all you have to say is download here, two words and someone does it. I mean it's you know I find that fascinating.
Nigel:
Yeah.
Nigel:
And it's to your point that you made earlier is the human element. It's whatever the company thinks is good in terms of marketing is pretty much irrelevant. It's what the prospects think. So you make it easy for them. that's, I guess the technology makes it very easy to do that nowadays.
Lawrence:
Sure, but I mean you still see this particular electric vehicle manufacturer I understand that they've gained some you know quite a level of prominence and success over here in the UK But you for me, know, whoever came up with that idea I feel is I mean it's very clever because you're just jumping over all the traditional methods of if you know marketing or sales or business development
Nigel:
More.
Lawrence:
and you're just giving, it's what, it's an imperative. It's what I call a marketing imperative. So you're telling them what to do, download here, and the person goes, okay. I think it's amazing because you know, have I done that? Probably I did it with my banking apps, of course, on the mobile, that sort of thing. Much to the detriment of the high street branches, which are all pretty much disappeared now in the UK.
Lawrence:
So yeah, I just found that really interesting. Whether I can adapt to an imperative marketing platform, I'm not sure I can. I don't know.
Nigel:
So you're
Nigel:
So you found that more high tech than the two page fax we used to send out?
Lawrence:
Somewhat in the you know that shrill telecommunications connection that your internet Remember you know you need to be a bat to pick it up so Yeah, I just find you know the technology is great. There's no doubt about it, but you know could I Adopt this you know imperative marketing strategy, you know in my sales and perhaps you know
Nigel:
I'm
Lawrence:
I don't know, I haven't really thought about applying it but perhaps it's time I should.
Nigel:
Yeah, yeah. Well, mean, what do they say? You got to adapt or die.
Lawrence:
exactly so but interestingly 1935 we're still drinking out of tinnies that's what you call them in Australia I mean that's a that's a huge longevity I mean that's massive success so yeah I think yeah that was a that was a good one by the way
Nigel:
Yes! Yes! Yes!
Nigel:
That's great. Now, just to finish up, we're going to just have a few questions to you about prioritizing and how you manage that. So, how do you decide what deserves your time and what doesn't? Now, this can be in personal life, can be in business, whatever.
Nigel:
But how do you decide what's a priority for you?
Lawrence:
Good question. I imagine it would be does it serve me and does it serve those around me that might need help or assistance? suppose I would, if you look from a family perspective, let's take that. I always prioritize certainly the children to, what am I?
Nigel:
Thank
Lawrence:
what can I do to perhaps, you know, give them a little bit more time because, know, as you know, work life balance, it was always a little bit tricky, you know, particularly for, you know, entrepreneurs, you know, who they work, work, work, you effectively the old adage that you don't own a business, the business owns you. So yeah, I think is being, I think being aware is a, is a big, is a big focus, put a spotlight on, you know, prioritizing.
Nigel:
Yep.
Nigel:
Yeah.
Lawrence:
your awareness of your time, how you're going to divide it. you know, with you know, where family's concerned, I make sure if I, it goes back to, you know, doing what you say you're to do. If I say I'm going to, I'll be done by three, four o'clock, whatever it might be, make sure you down tools at that time and go and do what you said. you know, that's a priority.
Nigel:
Yeah.
Nigel:
Which sort of harks back to what you mentioned earlier about on the client side of things. If you tell a client you're going to do something, make sure you do that.
Lawrence:
Absolutely. So that is a massive priority. think, you know, for, you know, for any supplier or whatever, you do what you're going to say you do, make that a priority. It's very, very important, you know, because it's, you know, you will then get that reputation for being reliable, you know, and reliability is, it's like, wow. And the other R is responsibility. You have a responsibility to
Lawrence:
particularly if you're a business owner, you have a huge responsibility to make sure you deliver what your business says you're going to deliver when you say you're going to deliver it. You also have a big responsibility, which I feel is a big priority, to nurture your staff, your team. That's hugely important. prioritizing...
Lawrence:
those sorts of things. And I think Richard Branson said that, you you train your staff well so they can leave, but you treat them well so they don't want to. Right. So, you know, he's, made a priority there of, you know, focusing on again, you know, that people element, his team, giving them the skills and the knowledge to advance if they wanted to. But yet treating them well enough as you should.
Nigel:
community.
Lawrence:
So they don't want to go anywhere else. They love it. So I think, you
Nigel:
Wow, that's great. I like that. I hadn't heard that before. That's, that's very good. No, no. Yeah, it's your, yeah. Yeah. So that's very good. What you said there. Do you have a way of like a self check mechanism to make sure you're practicing what you preach of, you know, how you said, if you said you're going to be finished, well, that's an easy one. If you say going to be finished by three, you make sure you finish by three. But
Lawrence:
Yeah, it's not mine, it's Sir Richard's, so thanks Sir Richard.
Nigel:
In other aspects, do you have a way of making sure that you don't get distracted and just don't go over time or just neglect priorities that shouldn't be neglected?
Lawrence:
Yeah, so it's something I use in business and in family life, particularly when the children were younger, is it's kind of along the lines of, you know, do what you say you're to do. But if you actually give the timeline of what's capable, what's going to happen. So and you can do it. I do that with, you know, clients, you let them know I'm going to be doing this here. I have whatever it is at
Lawrence:
you give them a timeline so they know the boundaries, they know you're managing the expectation. Personally for me, I'm old school so I use a diary and a pen or pencil and I make notes for what I want to achieve for the day from a business perspective. Do I need to research these potential clients? What have I got that might help them?
Lawrence:
and then I set out a goal that I want to achieve, hopefully by that day. yeah, mean, when you have, for me, when you have an existing client that you supply to, give them a schedule, give them, manage those expectations, put a priority on that. And as I said, that all goes back to doing what you say you're gonna do, which is, look, I'm gonna do this, we've got this plan in place, we can have this over to you by then.
Nigel:
Mmm.
Lawrence:
make sure you do that. so that is a, you know, certainly for me is give that communication early so that they know what the process is. You know, I think that's for me is, is, hugely important.
Nigel:
Mm.
Nigel:
Yeah, mean, a couple of things you said there really struck with me. One is communication. As I've seen so many deals fall over or people getting stressed or wrong decisions being made or people worrying about nothing because of lack of communication. And especially with
Nigel:
let's say a business deal, for example, where, you know, both sides are getting a bit anxious about it. Is it going to happen? What's going on? And you're waiting on an answer. You're waiting on a signature. You're waiting on whatever it is. The person doing that may have gone out for lunch. They may have been caught in the hot. You don't know what's going on. And it's the not knowing the lack of communication, which causes a lot of issues. And if people communicated and like you said,
Nigel:
Tell people exactly what's going on, align the expectations and then stick to it.
Lawrence:
Correct. Correct. I think it's human courtesy to participate, you like you say, in business with deals. I think also sometimes if you have an impasse where it's not quite over the line or, you know, it's gone quiet, that sort of thing. I think sometimes it's important also to just step back and ask the question, you because questions are, you hopefully get answers.
Lawrence:
And ask the question, what else can, what else do you need? You know, what can I do? You know, it's, it's, you know, be up, be open, be honest with, you know, and be fair. You know, I think, uh, for me, some of the, I think in my career, a lot of any business deals that I think haven't come off is because perhaps the offer wasn't actually fair to, to both sides. And I, I've seen a shift in that certainly.
Lawrence:
I would give an example, hospitality client, they were kind of, they were asking for too much. You know, the rate card they were asking for was clearly too high. And I managed to negotiate with them, say, look, you're going to make profit on this, but you don't need to make 160 % profit. That's, you know, that's effectively greedy.
Lawrence:
if you come down and everyone can share in the spoils, then you've created a much nicer, I would call it business link, a business hoop. As soon as someone in that link, that hoop, behaves a little bit outside, I think, the boundaries, that loop will break and then it breaks down. So it's important to also be fair.
Lawrence:
if you are a supplier, just add a couple of zeros on because you want to make quick buck. Try and develop that relationship and say, look, this is what we need. If I need to hit this just to make net zero, I can't operate like that. I need to make a profit because we all do. So as I'm saying, be be honest about it, communicate the boundaries and the expectations and stick to them.
Nigel:
Yeah, no, sounds good. And you're right. mean, you can try to get super greedy on one deal, but you'll never do business with those people again. And word will get around.
Lawrence:
Correct. Right, exactly. you know, for me, longevity is a, that's a, that's a priority. You know, you need to be, you need to be looking prioritizing how can we secure this, this deal and how can we keep it? You know, that's a, you know, has to be a priority because the one hit wonders are, you know, exactly that.
Nigel:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the other point you mentioned, it's talking about giving that expectation, giving that schedule to the client or supplier, whoever it may be, then they make you accountable as well. So it's not just on yourself to be self disciplined and accountable. You've got other parties expecting you and staying on you as well to make sure that the priorities are delivered.
Lawrence:
No, correct. And that's again, that's where the responsibility of being a business owner or a senior individual in work, you have that responsibility. And you should, I think that people should embrace that. It's like you say, that you manage to, get a reputation for delivering what you say, how you say and what you say. You should have a good long...
Lawrence:
business relationship with those individuals.
Nigel:
Yeah, it makes life a lot easier if you've got clients. When you wake up in the morning, you don't have to go find them each day.
Lawrence:
That's true. That would be nice. Yeah.
Nigel:
So what, just finally, what's one piece of advice that you've been given by someone, again, can be business, can be personal, that you've taken on board, that you'd like to share with others.
Lawrence:
I think just what I banged on about for the last 40 minutes, Nigel, is do what you say you're going to. think it's be honest and be yourself. think is a, those are my grand used to say, just be yourself because no one else can be. And I remember thinking, it's obvious, but I being yourself and being honest and doing what you say.
Nigel:
Yes.
Lawrence:
you'll be alright definitely so that's kind of what I've stuck with that. my grandad by the way, good lord, so that 1935 nugget you gave us earlier, they used to do sale or return in bottles not cans. you know what that is? Like the milkman or whatever it was, they would deliver the old plastic crates with cider bottles or ale bottles in.
Nigel:
Thank
Nigel:
Yep.
Lawrence:
and they'd come back at the end of the week and you only paid for what you'd consumed and then he took the rest back.
Nigel:
okay.
Lawrence:
Yeah, so how things have advanced now. imagine going to a supermarket, what do you call them over there? Bottle shops and you buy a four pack and you only have two and you go back now, I don't want those. Can I have my money back? They'll throw you out the shop.
Nigel:
Yeah, yeah.
Nigel:
Although they could probably do it, probably wouldn't find many people taking them back.
Lawrence:
No, well there you are, but that's a prime example of how that marketing tool changed. Sale or return was based on trust and everybody used to do it. was like, okay, and you leave, no one nicked them, it was just, it was amazing.
Nigel:
Well that was my first thought that if they just leave him at the front door, he'll go around and take the...
Lawrence:
No, it's just... No, honestly, it's just different era. yeah. But, yeah, try that. Next time you go to the bottle shop, if you ever do, of course, you know, buy your four beers and take two back the next day and go, oh, I didn't really want those. Can I have the money back? Then you'll go, no.
Lawrence:
But I haven't opened them, the sell-by date's still good, I mean, this, you know?
Nigel:
Yeah, yeah, I'll let them know maybe when I buy it, listen or if they're not happy, I'll bring them back to you. Yes, yes. Look, Lawrence, thank you very much for your time today. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. And look, I think you've really imparted some pearls of wisdom there. If I may be so bold as to sum up basically your, pardon me.
Lawrence:
You
Lawrence:
You may, and thank you.
Nigel:
Your ethos when it comes to business and life in general is be yourself and the human element. Because being true to yourself, if you're not, other people pick up on that anyway. And they'll be going, what's going on here? Something's not right. So you've based your career on being yourself, open communication, and setting expectations. And I think there's a lesson in that for everyone.
Lawrence:
I do what say.
Lawrence:
Okay.
Nigel:
So on that, will say farewell. Lawrence, you have a good day today. And please everyone come back next time for the next edition of the Priority Podcast. Take care.