In this insightful interview, James King of King Financial Planning shares his 30-year journey in the financial services industry, discussing trust, client relationships, industry challenges, succession planning, and the future of financial advising. Discover practical advice for newcomers and industry trends shaping the future of financial planning.
Summary
In this insightful interview, James King of King Financial Planning shares his 30-year journey in the financial services industry, discussing trust, client relationships, industry challenges, succession planning, and the future of financial advising. Discover practical advice for newcomers and industry trends shaping the future of financial planning.
key topics
Trust and reputation in financial advice
Industry challenges and succession planning
Attracting and training new advisors
Impact of regulation and technology
Client relationship management
sound bites
"Trust is a key thing in this industry."
"We need more new blood into this industry."
"Regulation is pushing a huge amount of people out."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to James King and His Journey
02:15 The Role of a Financial Planner
04:07 Building Trust and Reputation in Financial Advisory
07:56 Referrals and New Business Acquisition
12:23 Challenges for Younger Advisors
16:12 The Future of Financial Services and New Opportunities
20:27 Balancing Client Time with Regulatory Demands
20:41 Navigating Regulatory Challenges in Financial Advisory
23:49 Leveraging Technology for Efficiency
26:43 Succession Planning and Business Valuation
29:42 Addressing the Savings Gap and Financial Literacy
35:43 The Future of Financial Advisory: Attracting New Talent
The Priority Lane: Welcome to the Priority Lane podcast. I'll be your host today, Lawrence Dauncey. My guest today is James King of King Financial Planning. James has been in the financial services industry for almost 30 years. He started life, as I understand it, as a refreshment executive. For those of you of a similar age will know that he was a Tea Boy, and I'm sure he'll go into that shortly.
James: You.
The Priority Lane: So welcome, James. Thank you very much for taking the time to chat to us.
James: No problem guys, nice to see you.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, thank you. We had a nice chat a few weeks ago and I'm glad you agreed to come on and just drill down on a few things that are obviously becoming more prevalent in the financial services industry. So I'm going to kick it off. As I mentioned, you were a refreshment executive, I believe for Friends Provident many years ago. Is that correct?
James: Yeah. Yeah, not many people have ever called me that really. I was that tea boy. and was there. It was 1989. The world was a very different place. I was going to be a PE teacher, believe it or not. But then a friend of mine said there was a job at Friends Provident and I went to meet the... At that time, she was the only manager of a Friends Provident branch, of which there were 37, and that was a lady.
The Priority Lane: That's right.
James: and she was a formidable lady, a lady called Margaret Davis and you sort of met her and you never really said no to her really, that was just what happened. So from there I'm suddenly working in this office not knowing what I'm doing and I walked up and down with a proper tea and made people cups of tea and coffee and that was my role in life. That was the starting point.
The Priority Lane: But I
The Priority Lane: It's not a bad start, at least you started somewhere. When we spoke a couple of weeks ago, you made an interesting point that I noted down. I think we were talking about initially the cohesive relationship between a financial advisor, accountants and all the other professional services that you guys work with. You pointed out a very good point. Do they actually know what we do? So my question is, and for all the listeners, what exactly, what does a week look like for a financial planner? What do you actually do?
James: Thank you.
James: Well, it's a good question. changes, mean the beauty of this job is that it changes all of the time, you know, so today I'm having a meeting with a big firm accountant to try to do some work with them. I'm doing this and then I'm off to do the ladies AGM at our golf club. So that's my day today. Pick it up some money for my charity that I'm chairman and trustee of.
James: It's changed a lot, everything's evolved a lot over the years. think...
James: You know, most financial planners have done this job for a while. You know, the investment piece is fairly easy. You have a thought process, you know what you're going to do. You see a new client, you have in your mind what that will look like. think it's more about the true value of what we do is the planning piece. It's about sitting down with people and saying, okay, this is where you are. Where do you want to get to? How do you label you to get there? But then it's all the bumps in the road. you know, over the last six to eight weeks,
The Priority Lane: Okay.
James: I've had two clients die, I've had one client that's had to go into a care home, I've got one client that's got dementia and sadly needs extra care. This is all the stuff that has financial plan as we deal with and it's nothing to do with what Donald Trump does over in the Middle East or what Rachel Reed does as far as tax is concerned. They obviously have massive effects, actually being that trusted advisor and helping people through their lives.
James: more and more now and my role is to try to get people to enjoy their money and to spend it and to do things with it rather than waiting for tomorrow because who knows where we are and I encourage people to do that more and more. that is very much the role and as I said the beauty of this great job is that it changes every day.
The Priority Lane: Sure.
The Priority Lane: Okay.
The Priority Lane: Okay, would you agree that I suppose, would you agree that most advisory firms are built on trust, reputation, as we discussed, the average age of a financial advisor in the UK is 58. And below 30 and below makes up 5.7 % only, and only 18 % are women. But in terms of the,
James: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: the advisory firms, I mean, as we did touch on that it is built, you know, predominantly on trust and reputation. And in terms of referrals, for example, and succession, when you've had clients who've passed on, you know, how important is, you know, a client referrals in growing business today? Is it still the same? it got, is it got more? I mean, how is it now?
James: I mean, you touch on the age thing, I think that's a really important point. I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit more, but we need to bring new blood into this industry, profession, and it is vitally important. Trust is a key thing. That's why you tend to find that advisors keep their clients for a long period of time. Everybody does all these surveys about the fact that nobody trusts their financial advisor, but they trust their own. Well, that's a bit of a strange statement, is it? But you hear that all the time.
James: you know, because actually people all don't trust financial services people but apart from my one's a good one and people tend to stay with their advisors, you know. I've got clients that I've dealt with since the late 90s and they stay with us over that time period coming back to the, you what do you do all day? know, that changes as they get older and you do different things. But trust is very important. I get most of my new work comes from my existing clients.
The Priority Lane: and
The Priority Lane: Wait.
The Priority Lane: Sure.
The Priority Lane: Okay.
James: and I think a lot of other advisors are in a similar position. Getting new work is, there's lots of work out there, it's whether it's who wants to do what work and at what numbers. know, we as an industry have gone from a point where when I first started, I'd have done a 50 pound a month pep.
The Priority Lane: Okay.
James: you know going back to you know literally do any piece of business you possibly can but the strange thing about you know our world now is there's less and less advisors and so people have become more and picky and you're in a place where RDR changed the world because suddenly people were made to generate recurring income which they hadn't really done in the past it was all you know initial fee initial commissions get as much as you can and then go and get another client whereas
The Priority Lane: Yeah, sure.
The Priority Lane: Right, okay.
The Priority Lane: Right.
James: the sort of the first model of three plus a half, what that meant was that people were starting to build up recurring income, therefore those advisors have suddenly, over a number of years, have suddenly got revenues coming in, you know, and so they can be a bit more picky on who they look after and who they don't. And then you're in this whole statistic of, you know, only 9 % of people or whatever it is, something like that, actually get any advice because the advisors that are left are only dealing with the high networth
The Priority Lane: Right.
The Priority Lane: Right.
James: clients or largely big generalisation but it is sort of true you know. I would have a slight tangent there but yeah there are lots of clients out there we as an industry need to build trust as a bigger picture not for individuals like me or lots of other advisors that have got great clients and deal with them themselves we need the world to know that actually it's a pretty trustworthy organisation,
The Priority Lane: Farah?
The Priority Lane: So for you, your referrals or any new business come from existing clients.
James: Yeah, well...
James: Yes and no. Historically, obviously my background is I was a partner in a firm of chartered accountants, called Price Bailey I worked for Macken to Hudson Chartered Accountants before that. my specialism, if you don't have any, is working financial planning in the accountancy world together. So most of my clients came from the accountancy practice because I was there best part 20 years. So there were referrals, but there happened to be referrals from audit partners or tax people
The Priority Lane: OK. Yeah.
The Priority Lane: Sure.
James: corporate finance people that I worked with and were colleagues and we worked on clients together. So, you know, from a, from a, if you, if people are trying to get new work, the agency space and professional connections, it's very boring. People have heard this a million times before. There are some great people out there. What you have to understand coming back to your earlier point is that lots of the times these people don't really understand what we do. And so the whole educational piece that you have to keep going through time and time again is
The Priority Lane: Thank
The Priority Lane: Yeah.
James: incredibly important and just dont give up is my answer.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, yeah, it's just because it was just interesting to find out, know, you know, how other advisors, how do they how does it happen that they get new clients, you know, let's let's put aside the fact, of course, that, you know, we have you build up trust over how many years it is, and, you know, your your existing clients will, you know, recommend you potentially to to someone else, but
The Priority Lane: For those who don't have the longevity that you do. Yeah, my question is, how do they make it happen? How do they get new clients, new business on board?
James: I think there's an element, know, the old sales sort of stuff is you want to put as much in the hopper as you can and it starts to filter down. And so that is going to local marketing events, going to being members of various clubs.
The Priority Lane: Okay.
James: Rotary types, all those types of things that are all out there. Business breakfasts, all that stuff. But also, I do believe professional connections is a really big, strong way forward to get new business. But you have to...
James: Again coming back to stuff you said earlier trust is the key word so the accountancy profession lawyers Others they because there is an underlying not sure what these guys do or what they can benefit my clients You have to build on that you have to go in and you have to you know do things like CPD events talk to some of their clients do some stuff some some educationate educational stuff and put on lunches take people out just constantly do things for
The Priority Lane: Okay.
James: the accountancy firm, the law firm that they feel could actually help their clients, because that's the key bit. Most of these people just want to look after their clients, that's their aim. And if you can keep doing that and do a good job, then eventually one or two things start to happen. They start to understand you a little bit more, and you can start to move that forward. But it's a slow process, it doesn't happen all of the time. it's worth doing, know, the professional
The Priority Lane: Right.
The Priority Lane: Sure.
The Priority Lane: No.
James: firms have some great clients and they do trust their advisor. They trust their accountant, they trust their lawyer, especially their accountants because they know so much about them. So if the accountant puts you in front of a client then you've got a good chance of winning some work.
The Priority Lane: Sure.
The Priority Lane: So for me, that, I mean, that for me, I'm reading that the correlation between the age demographic that I mentioned and the trust that obviously you need, it puts you guys, obviously, that's why the average age is 58, because they've got the longevity, they've got the, you the history, you know, so therefore they've got the trust.
The Priority Lane: That then for me on the flip side is then makes it very difficult for the younger generation or younger advisors coming in trying to build that trust because the majority have already got, know, have already kind of taken a big slice of the pie. So, you know, in terms of that, how would the younger generation, how can they break into it? And, you know, what about encouragement from obviously, you know, the
James: Yeah.
James: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: you know, like to yourself and, you know, another senior peers in the industry.
James: Well if you go back and go back to my early days at Friends Providence, were 37 branches at Friends Providence. Standard Life had the same, Scottish Equitable had the same, Scottish Gamma had the same, Norwich Union had the same, etc, etc, etc, etc. Insurance companies everywhere. And the banks did financial services. Barclays went in and then came back out again, then went back in and then came back out again. Coots, NatWest, all of these people had...
James: huge organisations that did financial services and it was the breeding ground. I'm the prime example. Lots of people of my age started at a bank or they started at an insurance company. The issue we have now is that
The Priority Lane: Right. Yeah.
James: In the 90s, the contracts were terrible. There was lots of fat in it and everyone made loads of money. So you had lots of people running around, you could employ loads of people, and the service was brilliant, but the contracts were terrible. You look at today, and the contracts that people have got compared to the 90s, the end user is paying peanuts compared to what they would have paid in the 90s.
The Priority Lane: Okay.
James: But therefore, the insurance companies aren't in this world anymore because they can't make any money out of it. And so there's no breeding ground for new people to come on board, no people to cut their teeth and understand. So this is where we've ended up with this issue because advisors like me only deal with high net worth clients or more and more people at that end. So you've this big problem. And we need the like, we need the big guns, the quilters at St. James's Place,
The Priority Lane: Yeah
The Priority Lane: Sure.
James: the banks to come back into this smaller market to put academies together. But it's not just about that. I listened to Kathy from the Verve group recently and they do quite a lot about bringing new people on. And they had some stuff going on with bringing new recruits and training them up. And they've got loads and loads of people who want to do it. Problem is they're no jobs.
The Priority Lane: Thank
James: Yeah, so it's not necessarily that there aren't the people, it's actually the roles within it. And it comes back to my point, because those roles aren't there. And our financial planning industry is a cottage industry. There's loads of two advisor, three advisor firms, one in my case now, sort of gone from one extreme to the other. And so it's very difficult for somebody to take on a trainee or take on somebody that doesn't have...
The Priority Lane: Okay.
The Priority Lane: it.
The Priority Lane: Yep.
James: Any clients?
James: it's only the really big guys that need to do that and I think the regulator is trying to help with guidance and all the stuff that's coming through that, will be really interesting to see and that could mean that more people get involved with the industry, I think that's a good thing. I think the government is probably pushing that to make that happen. So hopefully some of the big guys will come back in. We've seen recently, I think Nat West just came to the market and bought Evelyn and
The Priority Lane: Thank
The Priority Lane: Sure.
The Priority Lane: That's right.
James: that looks like they're gonna come back in and be involved. Let's hope more of that comes in, which is strange for us, know, it's ultimately competition for us. But we as an industry, we need these big guys to come back so that the pipeline of youngsters have got jobs to learn and access these clients and maybe we can start to deal with more than 9 % of the marketplace.
The Priority Lane: Yeah. Yeah.
The Priority Lane: Right, that's good. Yes, that's right. Netwest, think, yeah, I saw it February the 8th or 9th, I think they mentioned that they were acquiring or buying Evelyn partners for quite significant fee. then doing that, do you think that will potentially open up the maybe some new roles or some space for new blood to come in?
James: Big number. Yeah, big number.
James: I think that's hopefully the intention. think that the signals from the regulators to try to make, you know, if you think about it for me, if a client comes along and wants to put £20,000 into an ISA, I have to do a lot of work to get that through. Attitude to risk, suitability letter, so many different checks, so much paperwork.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, sure.
James: that's why people can't deal with that anymore. So you need to use a combination of technology and people and process so that we can actually look after these people. And I think the regulator, with a nudge from the government, are actually looking at that and trying to find ways to simplify, know, again going back in history, regulation has gone from one extreme to the other. When it first started, basically we didn't have any. And then we've gone so far one way that actually it's pushed a huge amount of people.
The Priority Lane: you.
James: into this savings gap and I think what they're trying to achieve is to try and push that back. So somebody like Nat West and the Evelyn deal and I think there'll be other things like that to happen, what they're looking at is saying okay if there's a way that we can get to market to access maybe some of the smaller clients but we can do it in a way that's profitable because ultimately these are all businesses they're not charities then maybe they will come back to market then they do need people with a combination of technology which is obviously never going
The Priority Lane: chat
James: We're gonna go out late now.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, no, that's true. So, yeah, going back just quickly on the, you know, the side, the referral side of things and the trust issue, you know, that we've talked about. I mean, do you think today, you know, in 2026 that majority or, you know, the number of advisory firms, have structured systemized ways of generating referral, it still very much the informal
James: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: sort of meet across the industry, you know what I mean? Like who you know, not what you know.
James: Yeah, I think so. especially, well, I think at all levels really, there's very few firms, there are some, but they're the exception rather than the rule. think most firms are, you they've been around a long time or advisors have been around a long time, average age 58. You know, I'm still just staying under it just, so that's good. Only just, only just. But yeah, no, I don't think there are, you know.
James: very many firms with a referral program out there. I don't really think about it. And they should be, you you should be having your target market. I'm as bad as anybody, you know. I've been very lucky in my working career because I've worked largely with accountants. So my role has always been to get work from them. But as you started this conversation, if you don't have that, then you need to find other ways of getting work through and building up that trust.
The Priority Lane: Right. Interesting.
The Priority Lane: sure.
The Priority Lane: show.
The Priority Lane: sure. So yeah, I mean, that brings the human element, which is a big favorite of mine. As I said, people are the source, technology is the tool. There's no getting away from that. moving forward, I think it's difficult to find the balance between that human element and using the technology. And we talked about that and what my brokers app provides and hopefully that
James: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: does provide that balance. The other thing that we mentioned a couple of weeks ago and that I've read an article, I think in one of the PA 360 articles recently is client time versus regulations for advisors. I've read a lot and heard a lot that advisors, they're saying they're not getting enough time or face time with their clients due to all the...
The Priority Lane: you know, all the work and regulations and paperwork like you mentioned that they have to do. Now with the introduction of consumer duty and the other compliant sort of stuff, what do you think firms could do to protect that client time? How can they maximize that with all the other things that they have to follow?
James: I think it is very difficult and consumer duty was the big issue for lot of especially big firms because suddenly they were in a situation where they had to prove that they were doing some work for the money that they were being paid. mean heaven forbid, heaven forbid.
The Priority Lane: What?
James: But what it does do again, regulation for everybody means that suddenly you're going to see a client and you're going to write to them every year and confirm something that they already know and tell them stuff that they've already been told three times before in the same year and it just costs you more time and more money. And so when you're dealing with somebody with 20, 30, 40 thousand pounds it's almost impossible to look after those clients properly because it just isn't profitable which comes back to this whole loop of how do you deal with smaller clients
The Priority Lane: Sure.
The Priority Lane: Right.
James: and give them a good service, that is a very difficult thing to do. So technology has got to be one of the answers moving forward. A lot of our time as advisors and our team's time is spent dealing with providers. So you see a new client, you need a letter of authority for five different pensions and two ICUs, and you get the client to sign them largely in blood
The Priority Lane: Sure. Yeah.
James: providers don't take it in any other way, then you send it off to them and then they lose it and then it comes, then you send it again and then they don't send you any info, then you chase it, then you get 57 pages of nonsense with only needed two and then somebody has to decipher it all and then put it all together. There is technology that's partly already out there and partly will be coming that will deal with the letters of authority, will take the information and put it into a suitability letter and that will streamline those systems a lot.
The Priority Lane: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: sure.
The Priority Lane: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: Yeah.
James: and that will take away partly what the advisor does but a lot of the stuff that the admin teams do and therefore maybe those admin people can do other stuff that the advisor might be doing because ultimately what you want to get to is the advisor, all he does is what he's good at is talk to his clients. That's the aim. if you can automate as much as possible, this is not necessarily today but over the next few years I think this becomes easier and easier, automate more and more of
The Priority Lane: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, yeah, sure.
James: back office stuff.
James: and then staff you've got do other things, client relations, value stuff. So all people like me do is the easy bit, which is go and talk to the clients and then feed that back. And I think that makes sense. Some other bits, I've been trialling some stuff with a firm called Aveni, which is just dictation really. But you record the meeting and then pull through to some notes which you then can, it's 80, 90 %
The Priority Lane: allow you to get on, the job.
The Priority Lane: Bye bye.
James: right but then you can immediately links to a back office in our case IO and you can save it in there it just saves a bit of time it's not perfect but these things were all evolving you know
The Priority Lane: Sure. Yeah, yeah, of course. No, but I mean, as we talked about, it's important and there are systems out there. I think you mentioned in, I think, one of your interviews on PATV that you found it was still a lot quite muddled, I think was the word you used. And we get that. as you know, there's technology we discussed.
James: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: some technology that is auditable so they can, whatever you put through, which would also alleviate consumer duty pressure because you're able to do it in the palm of your hand. If you can provide proof that you've been in contact, you've given the service that you're supposed to be doing.
James: Yeah. Prove. Prove what you've done. Yeah. Yeah.
The Priority Lane: and you'll be able to do it with palm of the hand connectivity via an app would be, is great. it is coming. So yes, I totally agree with you.
James: And I think what you describe is completely true, know, most advisors see their cards all the time, but what do they say, if it's not written down then it didn't exist. And from a regulatory point of view, that's the point isn't it? It needs to be saved on a system somewhere to say that you've done what you said you've done. And if you can use technology in a way to enable that, then that's got to be a way forward and save people lots of time and anguish quite frankly down the line.
The Priority Lane: Try.
The Priority Lane: Right, yeah.
The Priority Lane: It's no longer just a piece of paper with their signature and a check. It's not that it's easy.
James: Absolutely. Yeah. In the good old days we didn't even have to do letters, we just got checks. Long time ago.
The Priority Lane: Well, maybe we should revisit. But yeah, so yeah, talking about the good old days, obviously that brings a say again, the aging population demographic that we've talked about earlier. You know, a lot of my work talking with, you know, financial advisories,
James: Yeah, not sure the regulator lets do that.
The Priority Lane: is trying to discover and understand what plans they have in place as for the business to mitigate key person risks, succession, and all those sorts of things. for example, the leader of the firm who's built relationships, personality-led rather than system-led, when he chooses to exit, for example, how is that going to
The Priority Lane: know, how does he sell the business and if he does, are the business value multiples where they should be? If he hasn't got, you know, technology involved? What I'm asking is, how do you for example, you just said you're not far from 58, you're still well below, but when you choose to exit whenever that is, do you have a strategy? Do you have like an exit strategy in place?
James: Yeah.
James: I think I've still got a couple more years left in me but I think what you need to do is you need to bring new advisors on board and there has to be a period you know me and most of the financial
James: planning world that's dealt with their clients for years are very, very loyal to who we work for. Our clients mean a lot to us because you build up long-term trust and you get to be part of their lives. So the last thing that we all want to make money, that's part of what we do it for, but also we want to make sure that they're looked after. you've got to be sure if you're going to sell your business, you're selling to the right people. And I think in my mind, I would bring somebody on board a year before I was
The Priority Lane: Sure.
James: going to retire and slowly introduce those to my clients over a period of time and maybe then still be around for another six months to a year to, if needed, just to go to meetings, just to be there, just to reassure people. So I think it's something that needs to be planned for. Rather than, I'm off to Barbados now, off you go. like I said, I know lots of advisors. They're a pretty good bunch of people largely and they want to do the best for their clients.
The Priority Lane: Sure.
The Priority Lane: me out.
The Priority Lane: Can I go? Yeah.
James: to make sure they're looked after.
The Priority Lane: Sure. I mean, I would think I agree. And I think, you know, a year, I would say it would be a minimum in order to, you know, really build up that, you know, that relationship to introduce because, you know, if we don't see, if we don't see an increase in younger talent in the industry, what do you think happens?
James: Well, it just gets worse and worse. The whole savings gap gets worse and worse. We're into a place where people just stop saving. involvement or the bringing forward of auto-enrollment was a good thing because it got at least got people to put money into pensions at a certain level. Unfortunately, nobody understands what they're invested in most of the time. So that's a real issue. It's completely true because people do the bare minimum and don't necessarily explain things to people.
James: people do stop saving or they they do what the government is trying to stop people doing is they save into cash.
James: which actually over the long term isn't the right thing to do. We all know that. But you need somebody to explain to you that actually getting a 2 % return on your cash rate when inflation is 3.5 means technically you are actually losing money. People don't see it that way. They see the balance go up and there's no risk and they don't understand the value of investing over the long term. And so if there's less and less people out there, we either get to a point where it's just really big organisations
The Priority Lane: Yeah.
James: consolidators just pick this stuff up and that's probably where we get to but actually you know I'm slightly biased but a lot of the small really well-run quality firms out there give great value you know we want to make sure we can keep those going but we do need to find new definitely do need to find ways of bringing in new talent into this industry and as a collective we need to find a better way of doing it which for god knows how many years now we haven't managed to do.
The Priority Lane: Right, yeah.
The Priority Lane: Sure.
The Priority Lane: No, I mean, going back just very quickly to that, you know, you're talking about the savings gap, etc. And the fact that, you know, most people have got like a cash eyesore or something that, like you say, they're actually losing money, but because it goes up a couple of quid or whatever it might be, they're okay. Do you think there's a fear factor at all, where I think money and investing is concerned? I mean, I think
James: Yeah, think that's going to be good point. It's a lack of knowledge, it's a lack of understanding of tax, it's a lack of understanding of what.
The Priority Lane: It might be lack of knowledge perhaps, I suppose.
James: long-term returns could be, and because they've got nobody to talk to. If you go back in history, I've gone so old, if you go back in history, you had somebody knocking on the door and it was the man from the prune. You had the Allied Dunbars, you had the various, I'll come back to it, the contracts were pretty terrible, but actually lots of us have built off the back of people knocking on people's doors and people putting tax out of our hands into endowment plans because there was somebody there that they could
The Priority Lane: Right.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, that's right.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, was, yeah.
James: trust and felt that they could put the money into. We struggle with that part and that's a big, big issue I'm afraid. We need to find ways to actually get people to save again because people are nervous. A prime example, lots of people try to come into this industry with robo-advice. If you remember a few years ago, everybody was going to do robo-advice. Didn't work. Didn't work. Because you need a person. So the key part is that
The Priority Lane: Yeah
The Priority Lane: No, not... Yeah.
James: There's a great little business up in Barnsley called Lifetime and what they're doing is they're doing a combination of coaches and financial advisors and technology. So you as a client would be assigned a coach and they look after you and they can do a little cash flow and they can talk about where you are and then if you need to do anything regulatory you can be assigned to an advisor and they do that. Then they use technology to get around consumer duty by all of the review process.
The Priority Lane: Yeah. Yes.
James: and everything else is done with technology and holograms and it's really, really clever. And then the next time in your annual review meeting when you see somebody completely different, you're not wedded to that particular coach or that particular advisor, you're wedded to the firm. And that to me makes sense. You've got to find ways of scaling that. But actually, you've still got a person that you can talk to, but they can do this for 20,000 pound, 30,000 pound investments.
The Priority Lane: Thank
The Priority Lane: Right, for the lower values, yeah.
James: It's not for the high net worth people necessarily, I'm sure they do a great job with that. But for the smaller stuff, you can be anywhere in the country, anywhere in the world as the COTA advisor looking after people. And to me that hybrid solution is a great answer and I think more and more of that is going to hopefully come forward.
The Priority Lane: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: That sounds fascinating. I know you did touch on lifetime when we spoke two weeks ago and I found that fascinating because for me personally, I wouldn't know where to start or who to speak to. Well, you now obviously, if I had a lump sum and thought rather than shove it in 20 grand in a cash ISA, what opportunities are out there? What exactly can I put my money into?
James: Yeah, exactly.
The Priority Lane: I don't know, I wouldn't right now, I don't know where to go or where to find those answers. you know, I think mentioning perhaps, you know, the fear factor is also, it's a lack of knowledge. It's, you know, I just don't know. And I'm asked what I want to know is what are, you know, the big firms or the smaller firms, what are they actually doing to get it into the public domain that there are opportunities and it isn't scary.
James: Yeah.
James: Well, again, I think, you know, it all stems maybe from the early stages. You're almost getting into the schools, aren't you, and actually the education from geodrum and curriculum and what happens there, because none of this stuff is talked about or, you know, basic tax stuff and things like that, things actually kids really need to understand, it's never really talked about. But again, you know, it's...
James: The difficulty for our industry is needs the big boys to do this because the financial planning community is largely lots of small little businesses.
James: So you need the big, know, your JP Morgan's who bought Nutmeg, they're doing lots of advertising, that's great. I don't have a problem with any of stuff, I don't view it as competition, we just need more and more people to understand that actually there's another option. Because actually what you would do as a sort of a typical person there, you've got some money, you end up talking to your bank and you might do 20 grand into your cashISA so 12 grand coming forward soon, and then you'll find the best savings rate.
James: That's it, because you go, I'm a bit worried about putting it into that S &P 500 thing or that FTSE 100, I'm not quite sure what that all is. And that could go down, can't it? Or you go the other way if you're kids and you look at all of the influencers on there and put it all into Bitcoin, which is the other problem, the other end.
The Priority Lane: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, yes, Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Yeah, I just found it fascinating. Of course, you're right. JP Morgan, Fisher Investments, there's a St. James's place. I've seen and heard adverts for them on the radio and on TV. they're there, but it's just doesn't seem to be enough traction or enough visibility for
The Priority Lane: You know, the average Joe like me to actually know where am I going to put one of my options, you know, know, luckily I've now met you and you know, could well be an opportunity. But I've got you for a few years because, you know, and then, and you'll be off to Lamang and the 2k and all the other places. that's good.
James: Absolutely, yeah. You'll be fine. You'll be fine.
James: Yeah, it's quite him. I've got at least five more in me, you You're right. You're right for a while.
James: just playing bad golf somewhere.
The Priority Lane: That's really, really good. What I wanted to talk to you about or ask you question about now is, you know, we talked about exiting and succession and that sort of thing. And I wanted to see, you know, get your take on firm, you know, business value multiples and the succession side of things. So I've written something down here that I saw and it was where advisory firms talk about succession or exit planning.
The Priority Lane: Business valuation, course, would be a key topic. What drives, in your opinion, what drives that firm valuation?
James: think more and more it's becoming a bit more sophisticated. The days of just three times recurring income or four times recurring income. That still happens. That is still definitely out there. But I think more and more of the firms are looking at things like the book of business, the age of the clients and the longevity of those clients. If you've got loads of clients that are in their 70s and 80s, then the value of that book really should be a lot less than it should be if you've got people in their 40s and their 50s. I know that's not rocket science.
The Priority Lane: cut
James: but people have never really used to talk about that type of thing, but they do now. I think processing systems is really important. think, again, the consolidators, the old model was where you've got something that's been paying half a percent, we'll stick them up to 1%, so it doesn't really matter, because we'll make a lot more money on it. But that's becoming harder and harder to do, because there's less firms out there to consolidate, quite frankly. So the only way you can make money,
The Priority Lane: Thank you.
The Priority Lane: the
James: increase where you are is by using technology and systems to reduce your costs slim things down to enable advisors to see more clients and on board things moving forward and I think if firms get their business ready for sale and they you know
The Priority Lane: Sure.
James: that they need to do this way before they're actually selling it, but be in a situation where actually they do have the systems in place, they do have their client proposition, they do know their numbers, when they talk to people, the value of that is gonna go up a lot more than it is just saying, here's my Excel spreadsheet and here's a load of files. It does happen.
The Priority Lane: Yeah.
The Priority Lane: Sure.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, no, I'm sure. I'm sure. But obviously, I totally agree with you. You know, it's kind of hit the nail on the head. You know what you said? It is without a doubt, it is about planning, you know, across the board, because like you say, if it is, you know, the key person risk, it's been personality led for 30, 40 years, you know, and they haven't introduced, you know, maybe technology or systems that
The Priority Lane: allow one touch communication via mobile apps or anything like that. And then let's say they haven't brought on any sort of more younger blood, whether it be via the government apprenticeship schemes or anything else like that, those multiples are going to be lower than they probably expected. So, that's a key thing. Well, that's great. Listen, we're going to come to a close shortly. But before I do,
The Priority Lane: I wanted to ask if you had any advice for younger generation coming into the industry, what advice would you give them to get into the business?
James: think there are very, very few roles in life where you can get such satisfaction in helping people and quite frankly earn good money.
James: There's not many things that you can get paid well for if you do a good job, where you can get paid well along the line, if you build your own business, you get value at the end, but ultimately you get huge satisfaction in helping people. If you're not the person that really likes helping people, it's probably a wrong role for you. But, you know, I love dealing with my clients, I love my job, I hate the compliance stuff, I hate all of that rubbish that you have to do around it, but actually seeing people and talking to people and getting to know them.
The Priority Lane: Thank
James: there's not many greater jobs. I'd prefer to have been a professional footballer but I just wasn't good enough. This has worked well for me over 30 odd years and I'm incredibly lucky to have met so many people and done so many things because of this industry. And that's why I always say to people, it's a great industry. do so many great things, not me, but as a community, the financial planning community, people do so many great things and we're just not
The Priority Lane: you
The Priority Lane: right
James: very good at telling people, sort best kept secret I think sometimes. So to youngsters I would say please please get involved it's a great job.
The Priority Lane: No, brilliant. Well, listen, thank you so much for joining me. know, thanks for your time and your pearls of wisdom as always. And, and I look forward to, I look forward to our next next meeting, you know, and whenever that may be, maybe on the golf course in the, in the 19th. That's what I wanted to ask you. So over the course of my business career, I have actually, I've done deals in the 19th at a golf club. Have you, has that happened for you in the IFA industry?
James: Yeah. Yeah, no problem. Yeah.
James: Yeah.
James: I've got a couple of clients because of the golf clubs. Definitely. Yeah, definitely. It's definitely helped. That's my excuse. Absolutely. Works well.
The Priority Lane: Right.
The Priority Lane: Yeah, I was gonna go as a golf club. I've got three clients. That's good. All right. Well, listen, thanks again for your time. And, you know, we'll catch up soon.
James: No, pleasure, it's lovely to see you. Take care.