From selling water as a seven-year-old in a scorching market to building a thriving coaching and lending business, Oz Konar’s story is a masterclass in turning pressure into purpose. In this conversation, Oz and Lawrence unpack the mindset shifts that take an entrepreneur from hustle to strategy, from survival to scalable success. It’s a sharp, honest episode about resilience, mentoring, and why the best business lessons often come from real life - not from textbooks.
From selling water as a seven-year-old in a scorching market to building a thriving coaching and lending business, Oz Konar’s story is a masterclass in turning pressure into purpose.
In this conversation, Oz and Lawrence unpack the mindset shifts that take an entrepreneur from hustle to strategy, from survival to scalable success. It’s a sharp, honest episode about resilience, mentoring, and why the best business lessons often come from real life - not from textbooks.
Reach out to Oz:
Website - businesslendingblueprint.com
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/oz-konar
Key Topics
Entrepreneurial beginnings at age 7.
Resilience through financial hardships.
Adapting business strategies for different generations.
The importance of action over perfection.
Building trust and human connection in business.
Sound Bites
"Take imperfect action, there's no perfect moment."
"When you take action, something magical happens."
"Understand what it takes to succeed and build long-term business."
Chapters
03:00 The Entrepreneurial Journey Begins
06:03 From Childhood Experiences to Business Insights
09:04 Navigating Challenges and Finding Purpose
11:53 The Importance of Mentorship and Learning
14:52 Coaching Philosophy and Accountability
18:00 Adapting to Diverse Learning Styles
20:59 Cultural Diversity in Business Coaching
24:41 Cultural Differences in Entrepreneurship
27:14 The Impact of Age on Work Ethic
30:52 Generational Perspectives on Business
33:38 Adapting Sales Strategies for Different Ages
39:39 The Accidental Entrepreneurial Journey
43:39 The Role of Timing in Success
45:57 Actionable Meetings for Effective Leadership
49:03 Creating a Safe Environment for Open Dialogue
51:04 The Importance of Accountability in Leadership
53:36 Building Trust Through Human Connection
55:01 The Role of Trust in Business Relationships
57:26 Personality Over Titles: The Human Element in Networking
01:00:41 Adapting to Change: The Need for New Skills
01:07:54 Taking Imperfect Action: Entrepreneurial Advice
Lawrence (00:05)
Welcome to the Priority Lane podcast. The Priority Lane is a podcast where we we discover how to work smarter, not harder. I'm your host today, Lawrence Dawnsey.
⁓ and I'm delighted to have a very special guest on today. a serial entrepreneur, CEO and founder of his own business, based out of New York at the moment in the USA. So so this is this is great. it's it's nice to have some of our cross Atlantic partners on board. So I'm delighted to welcome Oz Conar to the Priority Lane. Oz, great to see you.
Oz Konar (00:42)
Great to be here, Lawrence. Appreciate it.
Lawrence (00:44)
Thank you so much for for joining me. It's we've had a we've had a couple of chats in the over the last couple of weeks. I just wanted the the listeners to to check this out. So when we mentioned or we use the word entrepreneur, I mean I think lots of people have different ideas of what that that means, but when we spoke you told me a v a a very interesting story that at the age of seven, you ended up selling water in the markets.
to to to market traders. Now at seven years old, that's ⁓ what an incredible what an incredible feat or you know just an action to do. Tell me, how on earth did what drove you to just do that at the age of seven? 'Cause that's really quite something.
Oz Konar (01:27)
Yeah, so I I grew up without a father figure early on. So you go to the market and most of the sellers are you know, fathers and males and things like that, and it's scorching hot that day. ⁓ I'm hanging onto my mom's hand basically at the time. And they're selling tomatoes, fruits, and all that stuff, right? And there's they don't have any coverage over them. Everyone is sweating bullets. And I'm watching these guys, I'm like, I just feel bad. And they and it was only like eleven AM, right? They have to do this until like six PM.
And unlike now, there's no like bottled water or anything like that. No one knows the importance of like drinking water regularly. And I told my mom, can I just help these guys? Like our house was across the street from it. Like, can I grab a pitcher and a glass and bring back and serve them water? So it wasn't like an entrepreneurial strategic planning that took place. It was just me looking at the guys and feeling kind of bad for them that they have to work and under that weather. So mom said, Sure, go ahead and do that. So I remember going back and grabbing the pitcher I was so happy ⁓ and and glass.
You know, so much to say about hygiene, everyone's drinking from the same glass, obviously, but that's just how it was, right? And I came back and I started offering to people and I did not notice that they thought I was selling water. ⁓ I was just serving them water. After the second cup, people start giving me coins. I'm like, what is that for? thanks for the water. This was really, really good. And after three, four people, one pitcher is gone. Now I'm motivated. Now the entrepreneurial brain kicked in. I'm like, wait a second, there's money here.
I remember doing that trip back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And at that moment it didn't really mean anything, Lawrence. It was like, this is cold. But I think it planted that seed that if you solve a obvious problem for the market, market rewards you, right? I wasn't asking you for money or anything like that. Then it kind of helped me later on in life. But that's how it started out, quite accidentally.
Lawrence (03:13)
Well, I mean it's it is an incredible story and and clearly I understand that perhaps at seven it may be too young that you know, obviously you didn't have a a a market plan or a business plan in your head to to sell water at the time. But it for me that suggests that there had to be a had to have been a seed or some sort of entrepreneurial DNA in you to to do that. But what's most interesting and and you know, and I as I said I bore everybody
Oz Konar (03:24)
Ha ha ha.
Lawrence (03:42)
And I have done for the last thirty years about the human element. It was way too hot. You know, water, you know, it it makes sense. So that again to the fact that you've clearly combined those two, I think is is absolutely awesome. So yeah, that's a that's a cracking story. ⁓ so no, no, not not at all. So after you've sold
Oz Konar (04:05)
Thanks.
Lawrence (04:09)
know, this water, you know, how have you now, you know, become and you've now what what has led you to be where you currently are? Clearly, you know, well established, you've got great number of followers, you're you you know, you founded your own business. T tell me about that that actual ⁓ process, that story.
Oz Konar (04:27)
Yeah, that experience kinda stopped there and nothing else happened for a long time, right? And I didn't know that I would end up in the US one day because my my father left early, w exactly when I was like six, turning seven, to come to United States to provide a better future for us, right? That decision separated us for eleven straight years. So the next time I saw him, I was turning seventeen almost. And then that's when, you know, we I came to United States. and I was hoping that I'm gonna
You know, get off the plane and we're gonna start living the American dream. And that's not what happened. We found out that he well no be we we knew that he had a business, but we found out this business was not doing great at all. So two months into our arrival, me and my sister and mom, he have to file for bankruptcy, right? ⁓ shocks to us. Now we're not even starting from zero, we're starting from negative. so we all started to scramble, get a job to pay off the debt and all that, right?
so they came with a shock and and also a realization that I did not know anything about money or credit or financing. I didn't even know why my father's business failed, right? It was like a rude awakening call. But I didn't also think that I had the power to do anything about it. So people told me you gotta go to college. So just like most people, I went to college, did double major in biology and chemistry. I was getting ready to go to medical school. And then it dawned on me that what
What does it take to go to medical school? And I was taught I remember on my fourth year in college, I was having a conversation with my guidance counselor. I said, What is next? She's like, Well, you're gonna go to another four or five years of schooling and things like that. I'm like, All right, is that paid for? She's like, No, you're gonna pay that, and most likely you're gonna graduate with a debt of probably 250K. I said, Whoa, timeout. I don't have that, I I can't get in more debt. Like, this is horrible. Like I'm, you know, I'm barely 20. And I said, All right, I'm not gonna do that. What do I do? And I'm like that's when I started.
going into full research mode on how to make money basically, right? So it wasn't the goal initially was not grant to serve humanity or anything like that. It was survival. And then based on my research and the courses that I bought, you gotta learn how to sell. Okay. Then that's the seven year old kicked in. So I started looking for a sales job. And then I was selling basically from anything from credit card processing to payroll and climbing the corporate ladder. ⁓ and it was it was going well until I noticed that in other
breaking point on what what am I doing with my life? Like what's this gonna hap what's gonna happen? Because at the time your audience might not know, but I used to live in Pennsylvania and I was commuting to New York City, which is a two and a half hour one way commute daily. And at this time I'm married and my f wife is pregnant, the first kid, and I do not see them. Like I wake up at five AM by the time I come back home with the traffic it's like nine PM, right? We're doing the cycle. I look at this, I'm like, all right, if I continue on this path, maybe I'll make more money, but I'm pretty certain that I'm not gonna have a wife.
Because I don't see her, right? ⁓ that's when I started networking with other people. Now I'm learning networking, like the next phase, right? And I come across a guy who does sell business loans basically. And that was an industry that I didn't know existed. And through our referral relationship, I made my first big money for big for me, four thousand dollar check from a referral. I just referred him someone, didn't even talk to the guy, and got money.
Lawrence (07:14)
Yeah,
Oz Konar (07:39)
And I I remember I still have that picture. I brought that check back to my wife and to ha had had her take a picture of that and say, now things are changing, right? Because I finally kind of found a way to make like real money. And obviously I just w w went all in on that one. That was a journey of me becoming a business loan broker and everything was going great. Then as I started networking, people started asking me to give talks about business funding because it's such a
Niche area that no one talks about. They don't teach you in school. Every business, like they everyone wants to be a business owner, but they don't understand the finances part of that, right? So I had people who wanted funding, but a lot more people wanted to learn about how this industry works, right? Which slowly pushed me into the coaching arena, which brought us here fast forward like you know eight years. So we created the largest coaching company in the alternative lending industry. We have 7,000 brokers. And
Basically I've been teaching them what I did to become successful. And also we created the back end of the funding network with the lenders. So it's like a two tier position. So all you know, all all the things that I've learned since seven and the financial troubles and things like that kind of prepare me for today and hopefully ⁓ be good enough to help other people who want to do the same thing for their lives.
Lawrence (08:54)
Well, listen, I mean that's I would I would agree with that. I mean the one I think the one resounding thing I have in my head for where you're concerned there is certainly you you clearly I think as any entrepreneur does, you exhibit a level of resilience that that I think is required. resilience and of course focus, you know, a single focal point that this is where I need to be. How how do I
Oz Konar (09:17)
Yes.
Lawrence (09:18)
get there, how do I go about that? And you mentioned that you you bought some you paid for courses and stuff. So at what point did you go, I need a plan? Did you come up with a plan or did you just do it sort of, you know, off the cuff? How did how did it work for you?
Oz Konar (09:32)
Well, I started reading a lot of books. I learned how to speed read and things like that. And i i I I noticed like a lot of self development books, right? And I kept seeing this pattern that if you wanna get ahead, you gotta take advantage of what other people know instead of trial and error, right? So our lifespan is very limited in the grander scheme of things, like seven to eighty years. I said someone who's an immigrant who doesn't know anything about finances but want to get ahead in life, it can't be just sheer willpower or or or or like hustle.
Lawrence (09:52)
Yeah.
Oz Konar (10:01)
So there are people who figured this out and I'm in the center of it, which is New York City, right? The center of money. I'm like, how do I learn this? Obviously, I don't know anything about this. And that's when I when I was networking, I got a little bit more strategic. I said, who do I learn this from? Like how to do public speaking or or like how to sell better or how to provide coaching and things like that. I just whatever I earn, I remember my first investment, it was in it was into a twelve thousand dollar coaching program, which I didn't have.
Lawrence (10:07)
Yeah, because
Oz Konar (10:31)
So I remember coming out of the sales call with the coaching program, looking at my wife, my wife's like, What did you do? I said, Well, we gotta sign up to this, but we don't have the money. I'm gonna put it on the credit card. And we did a monthly payment. She and she's she's an awesome woman. She said, All right, if you think this is gonna help us, let's go for it, right? And and as you can imagine, I was sweating bullets because that's just a like you're trusting in someone that that could help. And that started my journey of, ⁓ this is the easier path. Like you can still invest and learn.
I think that put me ahead of like my probably version of myself that wouldn't have invested way faster within twelve months. A lot has changed. So I had clarity, I had I had the opportunity to get to know myself. I think one of the problems with entrepreneurs, they are passionate about what they do, but they do not understand who they are in their core and what they might be lacking because hustle is good, but hustle cannot be a long term strategy.
Right. You need a real strategy, right? Otherwise you burn out. ⁓ that that can't be your core of I'm gonna hustle, I'm gonna dial six hundred people. Initially that's fine. ⁓ but then what are we doing to actu to become actual business owners? And I think I still have that habit. Like every year just go to conferences, learn from other people, because it it is such a shortcut.
Lawrence (11:26)
No, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, no, absolutely, which you know, which is you know, what the priority learning is all about is working smarter, not harder. And of course we've all we've all started, you know, jobs and roles, you know, whether it be telemarketing, telesales, whatever, when we were younger and smashing out hundreds of calls a day, ⁓ and not really caring, it's just, you know, that using all that energy, all the youthful energy we had. So, you know, ⁓ I I totally agree with you. Having that plan, I think is
Oz Konar (11:51)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence (12:12)
Or at least recognising, having the awareness that you need to do something other than, you know, the hustle is is really important. And you mentioned, I mean, what I'm finding I just wanted to ask, have there been any specific mentors that you've gone that have helped you, you know, helped you and and really given you that knowledge or ⁓ you know, that next sort of springboard to to move forward. Is are there any mentors like that?
Oz Konar (12:38)
yeah. I well when you're getting going through coaching, I think it's a process to find out what kind of coach you need, ⁓ based on your personality, right? I noticed that I didn't really do well with people who just wanted to make me happy and keep me in the positive moment and give me a pat in the back. I did really, really well with people who kind of called me out on my BS, right? ⁓ because you ch yeah, challenged me like
Lawrence (13:01)
ch challenged you.
Oz Konar (13:04)
You you're if you have a strong personality, I have a strong personality. If I had a coach who didn't really just tell me like how it is, I ended up walking all over them and it it turned into a session of them trying to please me and things like that. Then finally found someone much younger than me, someone named Sam Ovens, who is currently the owner of school.com, multi-billion dollar company. And this guy is like fresh out of New Zealand, came to the United States running a marketing agency.
And on our first call, like y I I like the way how he spoke to me. Like we were he were he was doing like he was he had a mastermind of for only hundred people, right? And I'm trying to get in there. And he wasn't trying to sell it to me. He's like, dude, what's the problem? I'm like, Well, this is the problem. Why are why are you not solving the problem? I'm like, I I I am trying. So, okay, what is working? Well, this is working. Why don't you do that ten times more then? I'm like
I I guess I could do that. Like I was running out of words. The way he was pos it was just so dry. I'm like, I actually do like this. And then I got my coaching for him for I think five years in a row. The coaching sessions actually worked out that way. You show up with your problems, he tells you, okay, why is this a problem now? Very philosophical, right? Questions after questions until you kind of find the answer on your own, which is to be the best coach, right? Instead of telling you, go do this versus
Lawrence (14:04)
Yeah.
Right.
Course.
Yeah.
Oz Konar (14:25)
I mean,
there's a reason why you didn't do this. You're smart enough. What stopped you? So that was that's what it took me from being like a making a ten thousand dollar per month company to millions of dollars because of him and where he is right now is a testament to that strategy. Like he stopped coaching, built a software, and got investors and things like that and and killing right now. Yeah.
Lawrence (14:46)
That's no, well that's that's great because you know it it's true you I think through everybody's business career or business life you've always come across people that, you know, give you some influence and and they leave a little bit of their, you know, expertise with you that you can use. And of course there's some that as you just mentioned, that don't work, you know, for you. but I you know I love ⁓ I love Sam's approach where he's basically putting the question back to you. So you've you've you figure it out.
Oz Konar (15:12)
Yeah.
Lawrence (15:15)
So my follow up question to that to you is, do you operate a similar framework when you're when you're coaching?
Oz Konar (15:22)
Absolutely. Same process. Someone comes up to me with a problem. Hey Oz for example, I'm trying LinkedIn and LinkedIn doesn't work. Like think about that statement. A massive social media, like the largest professional social network, does not work for lead generation. Like that obviously that's not a true statement. I'm like, okay, what makes you think that it doesn't work? What have you done so far? And let me see the activity. And you notice that they logged in like three times and they try to connect with like three people. Well, it's a volume issue.
Lawrence (15:36)
Yeah.
Oz Konar (15:51)
Right. If someone has the volume under control, then it's the messaging issue. So when you get to the core of the problem, solving the problem becomes a lot better a lot easier versus saying, LinkedIn didn't work? Did you try Facebook? How about TikTok? Like you're not you're not talking about the problem. You're just trying to validate your students' concern by saying, my coach told me LinkedIn doesn't work. I'm just gonna go TikTok versus helping them realize that no, you had just haven't done enough repetitions.
Lawrence (16:05)
Yeah.
Oz Konar (16:18)
So I just I just follow the same process with my team. If there's a problem, I'm like, you can't just tell me what the problem is. You have to tell me why do you do you think it's happening? What have you done about it? And what is your question? Like my if you see my Slack messages, someone someone makes a statement, I'm like, what is the question? You're just making a statement. So let's find out what the question is so I can help you. If you if you're not clear on what what the problem is, are are you just ha asking for a conversation or are you asking for help? So if you don't know, that's okay.
But you need to be clear on what you're asking for.
Lawrence (16:49)
N no, it's c cool. So the the the guys or we call them should we call them I don't know, they students? Do we call them that? Your ⁓ yeah.
Oz Konar (16:55)
We call students, the mentees or
or like members, yeah.
Lawrence (16:59)
So so your students, your members, what percentage of your students members adhere and enjoy and like that framework that you've adopted after your you know adopting SAMS method? It would you say most of them like that ⁓ challenging approach that you present?
Oz Konar (17:23)
No, that's why I use that on ⁓ we have a higher tier for people to work one on one with me. We have other coaches in the company. Their approach is customized to the personalities. But if someone wants to work one on one with me, I do my qualification call and I make them aware that this is my process and it's okay if it's not gonna go well with you, but you're asking for accountability and I will hold you accountable. And if you have any problem with that
Lawrence (17:33)
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Oz Konar (17:48)
I think you should stay with other other coaches, like and we we do we have them take personality tests because as you can imagine, that will not sit well with I I would say most people. but someone who's a high achiever and they have serious goals. If someone comes up to me saying, ⁓ I'm making five K a month, I want to jump that to 50K a month, that requires a lot of work, right? And it's not the work just coming from my part. It's it's it's we we have to work together. And I should I need to be able to tell you like it is.
Lawrence (17:57)
Now of course.
Oz Konar (18:15)
And and most people are not okay with that. They they're taking baby steps and we have other coaches for that. But to answer your question, no. Most wouldn't be okay. But those who are, I think those are the ones who take it to the heart and that that's when we accomplish massive jumps in in in in their personal life or business lives. Yeah.
Lawrence (18:32)
No, okay. That's I just yeah, for me I was important to to, you know, kind of drill down on the adaptability of ⁓ of obviously of your business and obviously you being in the in the lead the lead role as the as a key person, you know, you have clearly, you know, you have a you have great success and and as you said, perhaps you know, your your method is suited to a s you know, a specific tranche of people, whereas as you said
Oz Konar (18:40)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence (19:01)
Some others might not, you know, be susceptible to it and it might not work. So which is again, there shows a great awareness, which also for me has to be an entrepreneurial trait. It has to be a skill to be aware that, you know, your perhaps your method might not work for that person, but you will find someone that it will work for. So yeah, ⁓ you know, other you know, 'cause otherwise it would just be you. So
Oz Konar (19:03)
Hundred percent. Yes.
Yes, yeah.
Yeah,
because you can't grow that much because most people are not used to thinking that way, or they're not used to being pushed to operate that way. It's only ⁓ from my experience, people who truly either desire to be a high achiever or they already are, and they they actually want to know how to fix the situation. Others want to understand what to do first and then they do it a little bit, right? The warm up is a little longer. And we understand that there are personality types. My background is in sciences.
So then I know that that approach would turn off many people, but that's why I only work with a very small percentage of our entire community one on one. And we do an ⁓ initial call to find out if this is gonna work out. If it doesn't, I'm like, great, we have amazing coaches. but I wanna make sure that what you want to do matches the action that we're gonna have to take in the given amount of time.
Lawrence (20:11)
Be right. No, I understand. I understand. I mean that also leads me on to a next sort of point that I have in my head. Now, obviously, as you know, better than me, that the US, the US, England, most countries now are multi-multicultural. Okay. ⁓ so your members, ⁓ whilst of course they're US citizens, etc., they come from many different cultures. Do you find which means, you know, and having I've lived and worked in France for for 10 years and
Oz Konar (20:24)
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Lawrence (20:37)
You know, if you think there's only twenty miles at the narrowest point between, you know, the south of England and the nearest point of France, okay, that's that's not a big distance, but the mentality and culture is poles apart. and I remember, as I said, you know, I I remember that it was very difficult to integrate into ⁓ that sort of culture and that mentality because it is so completely different. So my question to you is, how have you managed
Oz Konar (20:50)
Yeah.
Lawrence (21:06)
you know, that culture nuance that clearly you must have with your members.
Oz Konar (21:12)
Yeah, I I think the fortunate part for me is US is a very entrepreneurial country. ⁓ like I I was ⁓ as I was told telling you when when we got together, I came out of a two and a half hour live meeting last night, talking to over two hundred people about this business opportunity. It was a webinar, right? One thing that is that surprised everyone is every day in the US, about a thousand new businesses start. Like they they this def the formation of a new business.
As you can imagine, there is no other country that could have that number of volume, right? So I think the culturally, regardless of where people come from, they're almost conditioned to believe that you gotta have your own business, type of thing. And that belief is getting strengthened, I think every single day. Now, if you look at the employ job creation numbers and things like that. So Americans or people who live in America have have a way of flipping into business owner mode.
Lawrence (21:51)
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Oz Konar (22:03)
when there's job security is in danger. We've noticed that th through the pandemic too, right? Pandemic, we've seen three X more traffic to our entire funnel because people got furloughed or they got let go, instead of saying, Well, maybe this is the end of it for me or let me go look another job, they said, I always had this great idea. Let me just look into what I can do. And they go into that research mode. So which is I believe very different in European countries, depending on the country that you're in, right? So that helps a lot.
For me to start with that belief that I need to have my own business and help them see, I guess, if this vehicle is a better vehicle. Then all the other differences, like I think there's a universal understanding that when you're starting a startup, you're gonna be hustling a bit. You're usually starting with little to no money, it's gonna take some time, but I need to evaluate my options better. I think that helps me a lot to connect because in our community we have people who are like 20 years old, all the way up to like 80 years old, right? So it buzz puzzles me too, like.
Lawrence (22:49)
Yep. Yep.
Oz Konar (23:01)
How do we gather them under the same umbrella, them them coming from all different backgrounds? I think this that belief that they believe in progress. Like I th things are gonna get better if I do certain things. And as long as we keep that belief alive, that just helps us just you know become a melting pot of all these cultures and they believe in kind of one mission basically. I don't know if that answers your question.
Lawrence (23:05)
Yeah.
Course.
No, I d I
yeah it does. I absolutely because you know, you mentioned it it isn't just you know, I I didn't touch on it, but you did, you know, the age demographic, you know, your memories range from that to that. I mean it's and and you can't you know, I know from certainly from a European perspective or my own perspective that, you know, a twenty year old here in England does not have the same work ethic or mentality or understanding of what's required as I do. You know, so
when I was t when I was twenty. It was, you know, I I I came from a a family where my both my parents worked and they worked hard full time. ⁓ and you, you know, nothing was for free. If I if I wanted some pocket money, I had to mow the lawns. I had to, you know, do the laundry. I had to help, you know, you had to do a job. And I've done ex I've done exactly the same with my children also. You know, so when my youngest is ten. And whenever she phones, FaceTimes me,
Oz Konar (24:01)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lawrence (24:22)
yeah, we message free. She doesn't live with me, she's with her mum. But you know we message all the time every day. But when she FaceTimes me, my first question to her is hi baby, what how much do you want? Because she only fo she only phones when she wants two pounds fifty or something. But I don't give it to her, Oz. Unless I said, Well, no, you can't have that. Is it your birthday? Is it Christmas? No. So what I'm you know, she goes, But Daddy, that's just mean. I mean, it isn't. I said if you
Oz Konar (24:26)
Yeah.
Lawrence (24:50)
I'll give you two pounds fifty. Show me your wardrobe. Let me see. Clean your wardrobe, whatever it is, right? So I've all I came from a background of, you know, if you want to, you know, earn some pennies, you need to put some work in. So that's my that's my era. Okay. I'm just finding that, you know, that certainly now, you know, s teenagers, late late teenage teens, ⁓ people in their twenties, they don't have that same work ethic, which I don't understand because they're
Oz Konar (24:54)
Yes.
Absolutely.
Lawrence (25:19)
parents will be my age and would have had a similar upbringing, I would expect. So so what I was asking really was, you know, the fact that you mentioned you've got twenty to to eighteen, the I mean, that must be how do you say how do you manage the change in mentality between you know between those age groups? Because that's a massive thing.
Oz Konar (25:23)
Very true. Yeah. Yeah.
It's a hassle. Well most of our community is over age forty. We but we do have people, younger people too. What we notice is that ⁓ we as as like most comp successful companies out there, we try to innovate all the time. But when I look at the younger generation, either in England or in the United States, what happened in in the journey of humanity is this is the first time that within the past fifty years, a thousand years worth of change happened, right?
So cell phones came along, social media and things like that. And and teenagers, younger people for the first time got exposed to what other cultures are doing, what other countries are doing, how the rich lives, what an influencer is, and things like that. So you and I basically had no reach to celebrities. You would only see them on movies. Now they can follow them on social media and see what they wear and where they go, how they live and things like that. I think it creates that feeling ⁓
Well, I want to be like that without understanding what it takes, because you're trying to model after zero zero point one percent of the population who might or might not be living actually like that. And I think that kind of ruined the perception of hard work for a lot of younger people. So when we onboard younger people, a lot of them want to focus on the technological tools that we have to make their job easier. When I onboard someone like you, you wanna know what it takes to win, right? So you you you're like, I've w did hard work all my life.
Lawrence (26:51)
Right.
Of course.
Oz Konar (27:05)
What what do I need to do? I'm putting the time already as is. I want to transfer it to a better vehicle. We noticed even the quality of the questions change, right? The young people say, What tools do you have for lead generation? How many buttons do I click to get leads? And how do I how do I speed it up? Type of thing, right? So you can see the change in mentality like w from generations. And I can I was thinking about this. I think it coincides with
Lawrence (27:14)
Of course.
Yeah. How far do I have to scroll down? Yeah, I mean, okay. It's a very good point.
Oz Konar (27:34)
the rapid development of extreme rapid development of technology, right?
I I think if you're gonna accommodate to different generations, you need to have different strategies a little bit while keeping the core the same, knowing that that type of audience, when they come onto our sales calls, they they look for certain things, certain technological advances and advancements and apps and things like that. We do have them. So and they they lean on that versus other people. They wanna understand the the business philosophy and what it takes to succeed and what what they their day to day should look like to get to that next level.
And it just it becomes a business decision. Do you just want to cater to people who are like that or you want to open your doors? But when you do open your doors, you cannot offer them the make the same offer to the younger people because their thinking has changed so much on how business works. ⁓ you know, i i i i it you just need to have the better tools for them for them to act faster because they have the brain capacity and and then that l like you said, the youth energy, they can deploy it into it, but they have to believe that it is integrated with
what they do every day, their phones, social media and things like that.
Lawrence (28:39)
Sure.
Yeah, sure. I just one thought popped in my head from a sales perspective, it it just occurred to me that obviously hearing your insight into that, and you're absolutely right, ⁓ that their focus is ⁓ on the sort of technological advancements, the tools that can help them get get there quicker, almost shortcutting effectively. and that made me think
Oz Konar (28:59)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence (29:06)
How would I ⁓ sell effectively, you know, the consultants, the consulting that we do at Devera Capital and and the Blackbridge Group and my brokers? How do I how I was just made me think, how would I sell to that age group? And I'm I'm not entirely sure I would know how, because their mentality, their perception of what they need is is you know, is is not something that I'm actually in tune with. So how do you feel? Do you think that's the case? ⁓
Because obviously the majority of the people that I'm speaking with are a similar age to myself, or at least been in in business for twenty years, let's say.
Oz Konar (29:45)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think sales model changes. For example, people your age, my age, and above, they actually want to speak to someone to find out more about what you do and things like that. And they say things like, a business is done belly to belly. You show up and you talk to people build a connection. Whereas someone who's 20 years old, they just want to see a demo of what it is. They don't want to talk to anyone. They and they're very smart. They understand what if if if it if it is presented properly.
Lawrence (29:56)
Okay.
Oz Konar (30:13)
They understand what the tool does or the business stars and they make decisions based on that. I think that's the difference. So if you have a call it comes down to like what kind of funnel you have. If you have a call funnel, I think you're gonna automatically attract an older generation because they get that that's how business is done when it comes to younger generation. They just need to see first before they decide if they want to invest time into it. Right. so like having a pre-recorded demo of what the tool or the business does.
Lawrence (30:38)
Yeah.
Oz Konar (30:43)
for them to view because when we look at the age demographics of who watches the the videos that we have, like the walkthroughs, because we can see some of the metrics and all that stuff, it is always the younger people that consume those videos more versus the other people are like, I I like this, but I'm just I just need to talk to someone to find out if this is real or not.
Lawrence (31:01)
Okay, okay. Now that's I mean it's again it's that I just find this fascinating from from the human element perspective, you know, as you know, we've mentioned before. But in your opinion, in your professional opinion moving forward, how can you how can you gauge or balance the importance of belly to belly, you know, where you are actually speaking to someone that you you want to partner with compared to
Just being given something via, you know, an app notification. I mean, how can you influence, let's say, the younger generation to say that actually our way, belly to belly, will get you better results because you will build trust and you build a connection. Is that possible? Do you think?
Oz Konar (31:52)
I think it is possible, but this this is this might not sound it might sound great, but it's gonna require a different type of indoctrination process. meaning that you have to get in through the way that they think it works. Then after they get in, you slowly teach them the principles of business. We have a lot of young people, they get in and they slowly learn that, yeah, so it takes discipline. It it takes human communication. You have to be a great communicator. You can't just send a DM to close a twenty thousand dollar deal, right? You need to be able to do that.
Lawrence (32:14)
Okay.
Oz Konar (32:19)
But I think the starting point is to accommodate to how you want things done, to show them your system, then once they see the value in it, slowly indoctrinate them into the right way of building long term business. ⁓ does that make sense? Otherwise, fighting against the current is not gonna help. Like that already happened. Like that's how they operate.
Lawrence (32:33)
It does. No, it does. Yeah. No, I
No, I do, I think that's you're absolutely right. What a it's ⁓ I actually hadn't thought of that, so there's a there's a learning learning curve for me straight away and I love learning something new every day. absolutely use what they know to get them in and and then just a little drip feed effect. I think that's yeah, that's I mean clearly makes sense.
Hence why you do what you do. so that's really, really cool. That's great. So your business, business lending blueprint. So you started this what back in twenty eighteen, I think, is that right? Okay. ⁓ how soon, how quick did it take you to kind of see real results?
Oz Konar (33:08)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ well, starting st starting that part of the business became accidental as well because from twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen, we were a marketing agency. So helping business larger business loan brokers get deals and and and and and leads online, right? So since I figured out marketing myself, in my mind I said I can become a marketing agency. All of these big guys are smiling and dialing, they have these fancy offices, like they have the wall for wall street mentality.
I'm gonna show them how to do the marketing different way, generating leads through Facebook and YouTube and things like that. So our agency was taking off. But the one problem that I didn't see would happen is that these brokers, they wouldn't put value to the leads. They would get the same amount of leads through paid ads, for example, but they would still prioritize cold calling. So I noticed there was a behavioral change. They just enjoy being the boss and having like 50 people in the office, right?
And then you send the leads and I would show up to their office to notice that, hey dude, we sent you like hundred leads last week. It's like, yeah, thank you. Yeah, but no one called them. They're like, ⁓ yeah, we're gonna get to them. We got busy with the list. I'm like, so you're calling on a list that you bought and 20 other people bought the same damn list and you're getting your exclusive leads and you're not calling them. And that started frustrating me. And one day I went on my YouTube and I pulled up a whiteboard. ⁓ You know, literally the video said, Here is why your broker shop will fail in one year.
And i it it was just my frustration coming out saying that here's what you're doing wrong, here's where this is going. If you don't do that, that these large leases and the the you're paying fifty, sixty grand per year, it's gonna eat into your profit. Like cost per lease are two, three dollars. Anyways, I released that and next day I woke up, I got a lot of comments from non broker people saying, I wanna learn this business, right? And at the time I had a ⁓ VA, she was like, Boss, they want
Lawrence (34:45)
Yeah.
Oz Konar (35:11)
be coach. Like I'm like, no, I they're not even from the industry. They're not gonna understand. This is not gonna work, right? And that kept happening and happening. And we just built an email list. And one day I said, screw this, I'm just gonna send an email saying, hey guys, I'm just gonna run like seven weeks of Zoom sessions live. We're gonna jump on the call. I'm just gonna pull the whale and talk about my journey and how this works, right? If I had something like this, would you be open to paying for it? And we got so many yeses, right? And I said, okay, so it's gonna be like ⁓ eight hundred and ninety seven dollars.
30 people bought like through an email. I'm like, my God, we're on to something here. And that was the beginning of business lending blueprints. Again, it was not this grand strategy. It was just me noticing patterns that yeah, there is a value in what we do, but the big guys do not want to make that pivot, right? But there are people who are just hungry for an amazing opportunity. They get that. Even though my video was not for them, they said, wait a second. So we make money by selling money. What a concept.
Lawrence (35:51)
Okay.
Oz Konar (36:08)
That just makes sense. How do I who do I learn this from? And then we pivoted our marketing. but the luckily for us is that ⁓ we had the back end, like the relationship with the lenders, which is the biggest part of this whole puzzle, right? You might you can't have leads, but who's gonna fund them? So when we put it all together, and obviously this d didn't happen overnight, through the years it kept improving and improving and and brought us here. But the start of it was not was not super planned. It was just
You know, be me just being vocal about how I felt about the industry and I guess is resonated with some people.
Lawrence (36:41)
Well, with without a doubt. And I just you know, that touches on I suppose another entrepreneurial trait which is noticing the opportunity, you know, to y and the and of course the big one is timing. That that's that timing is I mean, how do you feel? Do you agree with that? I think timing is a is a crucial ⁓ crucial part of any entrepreneur actually, you know, becoming a success. Do you agree with that?
Oz Konar (36:54)
Mm.
Absolutely.
Yeah,
I think a lot of the entrepreneurial ship is just you just working hard at something over and over and over again. However, you get to a point that you just get lucky because you've been doing it for so long. When that luck strikes, you were there all along and it happened to you, right? So you don't randomly get lucky. It's just I was in the industry already, had no plans of building a massive community. And when I did the message, I think market was ready to receive it.
And they haven't seen it from anyone else in that raw format. And it just clicked like that. And that was the beginning point and allow us to build the, you know, community. And and then you get to a point that you already have customers, success stories, and things like that. There is an element of luck, but I think it it it's just strikes people who just like you said, who just go out there and just try to make it work every single day, like the little improvements and put your head down.
Stay focused on one area as much as possible. Don't just jump around and do a lot of things, right? because that's it takes time to build depth in things. And it's not overnight.
Lawrence (38:07)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
No, I totally agree. I that's that's certainly ⁓ that's certainly an ethos that ⁓ Nigel our CEO who you know I I mentioned I I've worked with Nigel back in ninety eight, I think it was we've been we've known each other a long time. Yeah. And you know, we ⁓ our our you know, our discussions I have discussions with Nigel and ⁓ his sister Naoli, who is ⁓ she's just an incredible marketer and and optimal. She's just you know
Oz Konar (38:25)
Incredible.
Lawrence (38:40)
The girl is on fire. and when the three of us when the three of us have ⁓ you know discussions about the business and and and where we're going, it the the brainstorming an idea will pop up from one of us. and I think what five what I find most exciting and encouraging about that is that when we've we've landed on ⁓ an opportunity that could be developed or made better, we put that into action.
It isn't just a discussion. And I think, you know, that I I was going to say to you, I mean, for me, having discussions fine, but you have to put it into action. do you agree with that?
Oz Konar (39:10)
Yeah.
I do, and I kinda ⁓ found it the hard way, honestly. Earlier in my entrepreneurial journey, we would end up having a lot of meetings and you feel good at the moment because you come up with ideas. You're like, Yeah, this is this is good, this is good. And then you leave the meeting and nothing would happen, basically. it wasn't until I hired someone who's still our head of marketing, right? Similar to your girl, he's just amazing. But one thing he taught me is that at the end of the meeting, he would be like,
Lawrence (39:33)
Yeah, exactly.
Oz Konar (39:48)
Yeah, it's a great meeting, but what are the action items? I'm like, ⁓ interesting. Yeah, I I guess. Yeah, let's talk about it. And that's when I noticed that yeah, I was getting stuff done by just keeping it in my mind. But when you start developing a leadership team, how you operate changes, right? Because they're expecting like the action items for them to act on. Otherwise, the meetings happen habitual and corporations get into that this thing through. They keep having meetings, right? And then you become that kind of organization.
Lawrence (40:14)
Yeah, yeah.
Oz Konar (40:17)
I totally do agree that you need to have a clear action item or sometimes you can't have it because it requires more meetings, then you say more more discussion is required, right? But when you do that, the action part, like everyone knows exactly what they need to do. And until the next meeting, stuff gets done. Versus I thought we talked about this, Lawrence, but yeah, we talked about that too. Well, I wasn't sure that you were that's what you meant. Then you get into that and the as the organization grows, as you can imagine, that bec that can become
Lawrence (40:38)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Oz Konar (40:46)
catastrophic because you f you feel like I'm having meetings, but people are misunderstanding like what is going on?
Lawrence (40:52)
Yeah, it's true. It is true. So then I'm yeah, that's cer certainly one thing that you know, Nigel is he is the entrepreneur, no doubt about it, 'cause this is all these businesses are are his his brainchild, not mine. I suppose I just he's the he's the bus driver, I'm a passenger, I suppose. But but ⁓ you know, that certainly the I suppose I I guess Nioli, Nigel and and myself are perhaps the core three.
Oz Konar (41:10)
Ha ha.
Lawrence (41:19)
⁓ but as I said, you know, our discussions are always there's always action afterwards. And and I just find that, you know, so so encouraging because I've worked, you know, with you know other businesses obviously in the in the past that you know, like you they didn't nothing happened, you know, and having a meeting for the sake of having a meeting is a waste of everybody's time and and it it and hugely, hugely counterproductive. and you know, on on that note, I think
Oz Konar (41:39)
Everybody's time. yeah.
Lawrence (41:46)
Something I heard, I think it was Elon Musk might have said, ⁓ look if you if you don't need to be in a meeting, just don't don't go. If you have no input, there's no point you being there. Just because you might be part of, let's say, an executive team, if it has no bearing on you and you actually have no input, there's no point you being there. And and because you you're then wasting your own time and the company's resources.
Oz Konar (42:06)
⁓
Absolutely.
Lawrence (42:11)
You know, and you know, and I've never I've never forgotten that. And I thought that was, you know, and it's it's interesting, I doubt very much that many invitees to a ⁓ a a company meeting actually look and go, Do I actually need to be there? I don't. I I bet they they don't for fear of reprisal. Okay. And I I find that that is a shame. ⁓ so you know, I think mm perhaps why
Oz Konar (42:25)
Yeah.
Lawrence (42:37)
the trifecta of Nioli Nigel myself worked is because we have open speech. you know, we're we're th there's there's no nothing's hidden, it's honest discussions. You know, if you know if they think you know an idea that I might have or they might have, we will say it. We think that's crack. You know, it's you know, we'll we'll what can we do to make it's all right, but what what else can we do? And I think that's a you know that's a that's ⁓ really important.
Oz Konar (42:55)
Yeah.
Lawrence (43:05)
How do you work with with your team? Have you do you have a similar methodology in that or do you have a do you have a
Oz Konar (43:11)
Yeah, first
of all, kudos to you to have created that trifecta of of a safe environment where you can disagree, right? Many companies do not have that. It is seen as CEO has the final say, which is true obviously, but if you're a true friend or like a true leader, there needs to be time saying that, hey, I I think that's not a good idea. ⁓ and here is why. Not just for the sake of disagreeing with it. And ⁓ I've I've I've noticed in corporations that people
join meetings just so they don't get fired or they get reprimanded or they want to show off with a corporate agenda, like, if I just speak more, I'm gonna be noticed by the boss and I may get a promotion and things like that. I think that's how organizations get more and more toxic every day without noticing because a leader doesn't see the real side of things and they see he sees a bunch of positive people so happy to join the meeting, but on the back end, no one wants to be there and they owe no contribution. They just want to show off, right? ⁓
Lawrence (43:46)
Correct.
Yeah.
Oz Konar (44:10)
So
we keep our meetings separate, like our leadership meetings. So we have the head of coaching, head of sales, head of marketing, all four of us. And we ⁓ I I I I adapted something I learned from Jeff Bezos, like the memo structure before the meeting, right? So what how he manages the CEOs is that if you want to have a meeting with him, you need to write down on a clean memo, cr I think he calls crisp memo, like on what it is that you're wanting to have the meeting about, why, what have you done about it.
And he says by the time an executive puts that together, they cancel the meeting because they find their own answers, right? so we have a similar structure. So before our weekly meetings, we have everyone write down their concerns and things like that. And I did it the wrong way before. Then I ended up walking into a meeting with 30 questions. Then we adapted to what Bezos did. I said, Okay, what have you done about this so far? And then the meeting quality has changed and also it gave them freedom.
To sometimes call me out on stuff. Like I don't know marketing saying, Ahs, you mentioned that you're gonna create three ads. I only got one. I need more ads. Like what's happening with that? But it didn't catch me off guard because it can come off as offensive if someone says it like that. But if it is on the document, walking into the meeting, you know, shit, I missed the deadline for the ads. And he's gonna bring it up now, right? You have to, yeah, yeah, exactly. There's no like if you're if we're on the same team.
Lawrence (45:26)
Well you have to be accountable. There's there's no
Oz Konar (45:35)
And we want to grow. CEOs need to be hold held accountable too because a lot of times the buck stops there. Like if you can't move the CEO to do stuff, that's gonna be tough to scale because he has the biggest impact with the community, the customers, and things like that. And if he gets stagnant, that's slowly how organizations start dying. I truly believe, ⁓ I don't want to get sidetracked, but that structure, but it took us a while to figure out how to do it properly so people do not feel like,
Lawrence (45:40)
Absolutely.
Oz Konar (46:04)
Should I say this? Is it okay to say this? But if it is documented, everyone knows and we can freely talk about it.
Lawrence (46:11)
Yeah, absolutely. I think it it does without a doubt, it it for me it works because that is human element. Of course it makes a big difference, certainly for, you know, Nigel and I because we we've known each other for a long time and we are we're we're good friends, you know, we put we've done, you know, stupid things in our twenties going to beers and going out late and doing things we shouldn't have done, of course. So, you know, it does make it easier. But, you know, I think also there's a
Oz Konar (46:24)
Course.
Yeah.
Lawrence (46:39)
that offers ⁓ an extra layer of trust there, you know, and you know, I can I can present a an opportunity or a suggestion and he'll go he'll go, Lawrence you run with it, you do it. It's you know, he doesn't need to give me a final say he's happy me for just just crack on and you know and that is a that for me being my age and the era I come from is a massive motivation, a huge, huge boost and I will be more productive
Oz Konar (46:44)
Mm.
Yeah.
absolutely.
Lawrence (47:09)
you know, with that. So, you know, I it's just I I f I feel very lucky that, you know, we have the the team that we do and I and I'm sure you you do too with with with your guys. So
Oz Konar (47:18)
Yeah, on
that, Lawrence, do you feel like that happens because you guys have invested so much into each other that you've seen yourself in your worst, your best and things like that. But on a newer partnership, do you think something like that is possible? Because many people are trying to take on partners and executives and things like that. Partners wanna be independent, they want to go do their own thing, but they think that CEO wants to know everything. ⁓
But I guess how replicatable is that? Because you have a unique situation with Nigel, obviously, like decades of relationship and he knows you inside out. But if someone wanted to apply, is it the hiring? Like you hire those type of people or or just it just comes with time.
Lawrence (47:55)
Yeah.
clearly that that's come with time, there's no doubt about it. But you all you've y you must have met people over your career, ⁓ Oz that you from the instant you met them, you had a connection and you got on great. you know, it and it was it was easy and it was like you'd known them for forever anyway. ⁓ and I'm just lucky that Nigel happens to be one of those one of those people. You know, in terms of, you know, onboarding
Oz Konar (48:22)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Lawrence (48:31)
New clients, you know, new prospects, new partners, ⁓ whatever that may be. You know, I I'm still of a mind and we see this, you know, constantly in posts on LinkedIn, which I'm sure you've seen, ⁓ particularly in, you know, financial advisory industry, ⁓ is the is the word trust. Okay. It's you know, you're investors, they've got high net worth individuals, ultra high net worth individuals, whatever, they've got a lot of money and they wanna be able to trust someone.
Oz Konar (48:45)
Yeah.
Yes.
Lawrence (48:59)
With that, right? So you've got to think you know, unless you've built you know, you've got those two three decades experience or knowledge of somebody or your advisor, ⁓ you you it's that's difficult to to hone. But I do believe that, you know, the start is what we're doing is is the belly to belly, is having you know, speaking, finding out about that person and having the human element. When I go to networking meetings
Oz Konar (49:19)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence (49:26)
I don't s I don't introduce myself as Lawrence from Dovera Capital, this is what we do. I will say, Good lord, you know it was about eight million degrees on the tube coming here. I said my soup almost melted. So I will use something that is true from from a human perspective, something that is not it's not work related. And that isn't me, that's not me playing a game. That's not a a line. I'm just being honest. I don't want to talk about work. How can you
Oz Konar (49:42)
Yeah.
Lawrence (49:56)
trust or work with me if you don't know me. And I am a jovial chap. I have a you know good sense of humour. Nigel and I we joke a lot and make fun of it make fun of each other or take the piss is how we call it in in the UK. and we do that all that so when I meet someone for the first time I will you know I will I'll I'll it comes from a human element side. I can't help it. That's just who I am. And I just I feel that you know that has helped me
Oz Konar (49:59)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence (50:22)
⁓ in my in my career before yeah. I do that absolutely.
Oz Konar (50:24)
that's huge. So you're basically saying personality before titles, right? Many people
lead with their titles. I'm the CEO of this company, Inc. five thousand, this award, that award. Yeah, but why do I care, dude? I just met you. Like good job on you, I guess, but you're not you haven't connected with me. And I that doesn't tell me much.
Lawrence (50:32)
Yeah.
Cool. No. It's it's true.
It it does you know, for as I said, for me it's you know one of the those that preliminary question that I ask every guest that I host on the priority lane, for me is massively important. Because you know, to to learn that at seven years old you wanted to give water to market traders because it was so hot. Okay, that that for me is
Oz Konar (50:51)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence (51:06)
That shows a huge amount of empathy. ⁓ and that makes you relatable personally. That makes you relatable to anybody listening. You know, th my women in business series where I interviewed the managing directors of ⁓ a a a number of IFA networks and businesses over here, prominent, you know, ⁓ girls in you know, I say girls, prominent women in you know in their business, they didn't get they didn't start as D, right? So, you know, one of them was
She she had a paper round. Okay. Another one worked ⁓ in she mucked out stables. She didn't get paid, but payment was she was allowed to ride the horses that she tended. Okay, so she got paid by opportunity rather than money financially. And another one, she loaded supermarket lorries with their with their supplies, and she had to wear big
Oz Konar (51:58)
Yeah.
Lawrence (51:59)
big you know, ⁓ steel toe cap boots and a high vis jacket. And she was a particularly attractive girl, you know, and she's like and I said, was it fashion over function or function over fashion? And so, you know, but it's things like that. So that's kind of you know how I that's how I've gone about it. But you know, the fact is, you know, in each one of them, that, you know, beginning story of of any work environment that they they started is is a relatable
Oz Konar (52:04)
It's incredible.
Lawrence (52:26)
It's relatable and you know, which is why, you know, I I really I really push that forward in in any work or business or relationship that I that I try and forge. So yeah, that's how I do it.
Oz Konar (52:38)
No, that that totally helps. And it helps with the hiring too, right? So like I think many people focus on the resumes. I always try to dig deeper, go as back as far as I can to find out if they had wins in life early on, right? So you're hiring someone, was she on the track team? Was she had to I don't know, was the mom as a single mom and she was helping out the mom and things like that? At what age did they start taking on responsibilities? Those things
Because don't forget that when you start that early, you're ahead of most people who are just trying to take a crack at it at age nineteen, right? I think that matters more to me than what you have on the resume. And for certain professions, obviously resume is important too. But if you're like you said, personality before titles, it it just shows that, we have a winner here. Like this this girl fights. Like when things get hard, they don't just fold and cave in. They do more. she ran the track team. She did this and that.
Lawrence (53:12)
Yeah, of course.
Sure.
Oz Konar (53:33)
And then, she'll volunteer for this. Well, that shows in the human element and things like that. I think that really, really helps going deeper on the interviews instead of asking Ken questions like, where do you see yourself five years from now? Well, I wanna know where they came from, right? Like ten years ago.
Lawrence (53:46)
Yeah.
But you see you you you hit the nail on the head. I mean that's a that's a massive I mean that's a massive thing to to highlight Oz frankly, because a as you well know it's the same met across the world, I'm sure. Look, you know, specific companies across the world they need to see the the academic credentials first. Okay. I understand that. But you know, then you look at the hobbies section, which is, you know, what hobbies, what do you do outside? It's about that big and nobody
Focuses on that, yeah, and I think that's I totally agree with you. It's if you were able to to flip that, you know, okay, we can see the credentials, we've seen your your certificate of accreditation, whatever it might be, great. Let's put that aside. Now tell me about you. Yeah, it it it I don't see it I don't see it happen. It doesn't happen, certainly not over here. It doesn't happen, you know, over here, ⁓ very much at all. ⁓ and I I find that shame. So yeah, yeah.
Oz Konar (54:14)
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
Lawrence (54:41)
So maybe we should start a new recruitment business where it's all about I don't care what you did. Let's tell me about yourself. So, you know, but ⁓ I mean one thing I know, you know, just briefly ⁓ before we we come to a close is that, you know, I I've had this conversation. I've seen a l quite a few posts on LinkedIn ⁓ over the last few months where people in, you know, f 50 plus have either been made redundant or, you know, they've lost their job.
And they are really struggling to get employment. And there's a number of reasons. Of course, economic-wise, you know, for corporations or companies, they have to pay over here 15% national insurance contributions for each employee. And it it's it's a significant outlay. the other thing is of course they're also thinking, you know, geez, if I hire someone who's 50, ⁓ you know, I'm gonna have to, you know, make sure that salary is, you know, befitting of with the experience. Okay.
Oz Konar (55:22)
Mm.
Lawrence (55:36)
So and I find that's actually detrimental to I think the the economy and ⁓ you know the work ethic because someone of that age group, what I'm trying to say is there's a there's a in the UK for a fact, there's a massive pool of extremely gifted, talented people of that age group, you know, fifty plus, who've still got fifteen odd years to to offer, right?
Oz Konar (56:00)
Yeah.
sure.
Lawrence (56:05)
And I also think that they're not specifically you know, of course everyone wants a big salary, but generally at that age they've kind of generally paid off their their mortgage. Yes, they might have children at university, which is still a you know, it's still gonna be a you know significant outlay, but their debt is in my head gonna be way less than you know people think. So they might not need to have that extra zero on or whatever it might be.
Oz Konar (56:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence (56:33)
and I just think companies over here are missing a trick that there is a massive pool of extremely talented, very productive let's get stuff done people i in that age and they and they've been overlooked. Is it similar is it a similar situation, do you know, in the in the States at all?
Oz Konar (56:42)
Yeah.
Yeah, I I noticed that on LinkedIn I s keep seeing posts of people saying, Hey, I was let go seven months ago. I applied to a thousand jobs. Like it's not an effort thing. Like I am doing my part. Either they're ghosting me or they're not interviewing things like that. And what do I do? Because this I think this is a newer phenomenon, right? Before if you lose your job, you know, we tell people, Go get another one, man. Like you know, look for a job and do that.
Lawrence (56:59)
Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oz Konar (57:16)
But I think they're being treated a little differently, right? So I have friends who are in their fifties who have a job, and the main concern that goes through their mind is that I think that sense of security is starting to disappear from the back of their minds because before, maybe five years ago, they were thinking, I have the experience, I'm the top guy, top dog. Like I'm gonna retire at this company. Now I'm hearing say things like, What if AI replaces my company already just let go of ten thousand people, fifteen thousand people, which is extremely scary, right?
Lawrence (57:35)
Correct.
Oz Konar (57:45)
And then what I see, I guess, partially working is that instead of leaning on the qualities they already have and the experience they have, I think it might be time to pivot and add new skill sets to be valuable to the marketplace, right? Those are extremely valuable people. I see it in my friends. One friend works for a major, major bank, right? He's an auditor. So his like who fires auditors? Like you need him all the time, like historically, right?
Lawrence (58:11)
Yeah.
Oz Konar (58:11)
But the bank just
fired like 5,000 of them two months ago and all of a sudden he's like, Hold on a second. This this is scary now. But what he's been doing since then is adding new skill sets through AI and technology and things like that. And we were talking about this last one. He Hey, my boss came up to me and said, Dude, you're the only one that understands how this AI thing works. Can you start working with me one on one to to help me understand it too, type of thing, right? So I know that's not fair. Like they already did the work and all that stuff.
But market is changing at a speed that we can't just sit and say that I have all I bring all of this. Yes, you do. But on the receiving end, they are looking for something different. And they are looking for people who can pivot. So if if you know, might people might disagree with that, but if the change is happening and we can't control it, I see it on LinkedIn all the time, it might be time to kind of make a pivot and invest into new skill sets that makes you I guess
Lawrence (58:42)
Course.
Oz Konar (59:07)
irresistible to to keep in the company. Does that make sense?
Lawrence (59:09)
Of course.
It absolutely does. No, I do. I think it's I think I totally agree with it. ⁓ you know, and I don't agree. We have a we have a an old saying in England which is you can't teach an old dog new tricks. and I don't agree with that. So, you know, I think yeah, it's bollocks, isn't it? Yeah, of course, yeah, exactly. So I do, I totally agree with you. And I I think, you know, the other thing I I would suggest, you know, if I was to give any
Oz Konar (59:22)
Total BS. Yeah. If the old dog is not willing to learn, you can't teach it. But if the old dog wants to learn, you can teach.
Lawrence (59:37)
personally advice to someone in their fifties who had who found themselves out of work or something is you know reach out to your friends I think it's you know because they're gonna know people who know people just reach out to as many of the contacts that you've built and you know something will drop rather than try and just you know s keep sending thousands of applications to unknown people, use the use the network, use the you know the connections that you have and
Oz Konar (59:48)
Mm.
Yes.
Lawrence (1:00:05)
You know, and and see how it goes. And of course, that just for me, that highlights what I said earlier about, you know, the human element. If you've been a nice guy and you've been forthright and you've been productive and you've got stuff done, you will have a history of that and people will recognise you for that. ⁓ you know what you know you know, the old the old saying is, you know, you need to you know, treat people nice on the way up because if you don't on the way down it's gonna be unpleasant for you.
Oz Konar (1:00:23)
Absolutely.
Lawrence (1:00:34)
So so so yeah. ⁓ well look listen, I was ⁓ my final question to you is is gonna be some entrepreneurial advice. What advice would you give to anyone looking to start their own business and and really just kick off on their own? What what piece of advice would you give?
Oz Konar (1:00:35)
Very true.
Yeah, it's it's gonna be short. Take imperfect action. ⁓ I know it sounds cliche, but there's no best time to take action. There's no better time to talk to a prospect. There's no better time to start a business. You can't there's no way you're gonna know everything before you take action. You just need to bite the bullet, whether you're getting coaching or doing this on your own. You don't wait wait for the perfect moment. You just take action with what you know because
When you take action, something magical happens, your learning ability grows by probably 10X because you're immersive. Like the you can be reading the same information on a book, retention will be on the floor. But if you take action and learn it while you're doing it, you will retain better. So it's it's it's the I guess best I don't want to say crash course, but best way to get ahead in life is have some information. I'm not saying like brute force.
But do not think that, I'm I don't feel I'm ready right now. I just need another three months, four months. No, things move fast. Like if you have something good in you, then people need to see that. Just go out there and just take action. Don't wait for that. That's why I coach our people over and over again. They join the program six months and some of them they're like, I still need to finish that video. I'm like, You don't. No. I I'm in that video. I'm telling you that you don't. Like you're watching me, but I'm telling you that you don't. You're ready to go.
Lawrence (1:02:06)
No that
Oz Konar (1:02:09)
I think that's the biggest advice
that I've learned in my life to too. Like just you know, we you have you make up your mind, you just take action and what you learn along the way is way more valuable than what you learn from just studying the content for months and years, you know?
Lawrence (1:02:22)
No, that's brilliant. Well listen, I think that's you know, that's words to live by and I and I totally concur with you on that. I think that's absolutely right. Do or do not. There is no try. It's pretty simple, isn't it? Yeah, just just you know and there is there's no as you said, the timing, there is no right or wrong time, just do it. Because, you know, what are you what are you waiting for? It's a bit like perhaps it's a bit like dumping a a a girl on Valentine's Day. You know, it's you it's not you don't choose to
Oz Konar (1:02:32)
There's no yeah. Yeah.
Ha ha ha.
Lawrence (1:02:50)
Is you know, do I wait, do I not? You know just just do it. Bad analogy, but there you go. ⁓ anyway, listen, Oz, thank you so much. so everybody, I'm Lawrence Dawnsey on the priority lane. ⁓ my guest today is ⁓ is Oz Konar He's he's been absolutely electric and ⁓ I hope you all enjoy you all enjoy our discussion and we will catch up we'll catch up soon. Thanks very much, Oz. Okay.
Oz Konar (1:03:15)
Thanks for having me, Lawrence. Yeah, my pleasure.