What does it take to lead one of the UK's most forward-thinking wealth management businesses? In this episode of the Priority Lane Podcast, Lawrence sits down with Helena Bogdanovski, Director of Private Wealth at Foster Denovo, to discuss how one of the UK's leading wealth management firms is reshaping the industry through innovation, leadership and culture.
What does it take to lead one of the UK's most forward-thinking wealth management businesses?
In this episode of the Priority Lane Podcast, Lawrence sits down with Helena Bogdanovski, Director of Private Wealth at Foster Denovo, to discuss how one of the UK's leading wealth management firms is reshaping the industry through innovation, leadership and culture.
Reach out to Helena:
Website - fosterdenovo.com
Linkedin - linkedin.com/in/helena-bogdanovski-92575a3
Key Topics
Helena's career transition from recruitment to private wealth.
Foster Denovo's unique culture and shareholder model.
Use of AI and technology to enhance client service.
Strategies for organic growth and advisor recruitment.
Diversity and inclusion in wealth management.
Leadership and mentorship in financial services.
Sound Bites
"People are the source, technology is the tool"
"Top talent is cultivated internally, not just hired"
"Diversity of thinking is essential for effective leadership"
"AI can't replace human judgment and relationships"
"AI helps advisors prepare better for client meetings"
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction to Helena Bogdanovski and her career background
02:10 - Transition from recruitment to private wealth and leadership insights
05:30 - Building a company culture where "culture is king"
08:15 - Foster Denovo’s unique business model as a shareholder-owned firm
11:00 - The significance of internal recruitment and organic growth strategies
14:20 - Challenges and successes in managing a team of over 90 advisors
17:00 - Mentorship influences and leadership development within the firm
20:30 - The role of diversity and increasing female representation in wealth management
24:00 - Helena’s insights on the future of AI in financial advisory services
28:00 - The firm’s innovative approach to AI and digital transformation
32:00 - Managing a dispersed advisory team and promoting collaboration
36:00 - Strategies for attracting new advisor partners and growth opportunities
39:30 - Advice for young professionals considering wealth management career paths
43:00 - Addressing gender disparities and promoting inclusivity in the industry
46:00 - Closing thoughts on industry evolution and Helena’s vision for the future
Lawrence (00:05)
Welcome to the Priority Lane podcast. I'm your host, Lawrence Dauncey. This is the podcast where we discover how to work smarter, not harder. And I'm very, very pleased to welcome my next guest to the studio, Helena Bogdanovski from Foster Denovo Helena is head of private wealth there and she's gonna have some insights into her career and what the business has been been working on.
recently. So I'm delighted to welcome Helena. How are you doing?
Helena (00:36)
Thanks, Lawrence. How are you?
Lawrence (00:38)
I'm
extremely well. Now, I'm gonna just kick this straight off. you are already a seasoned podcast host. Is that is that right?
Helena (00:41)
Okay.
It is. Why did you go there first, Laurence?
Lawrence (00:49)
Well, because because I
I I wanted to just give you a little prod and find out how you're feeling being on the other side.
Helena (00:56)
Not well is would be my direct response. So I'm very much used to doing the questions and the asking and generally in that and in life being in control. So this is kind of not my happy space right now. So yes, so that's how I'm feeling.
Lawrence (01:11)
Okay, what
Well, rest
easy, honestly. This is very, very simple, and I will go easy on you, of course. now when we spoke a couple of weeks back, I always asked the guests, you know, what their first experience of of work or you know job was. and I was intrigued to see that you worked in stable yards and payment was in fact being given the opportunity to ride the horses that you tend it to. Is that right? Okay.
Helena (01:40)
Yeah, that's correct, yeah.
Lawrence (01:41)
So my first question on that is, how do you feel now about having an activity as payment rather than financial winnings?
Helena (01:52)
Well, I'll be honest with you. mean, I was like 12, so I was delighted with the situation. I mean, I was your typical sort of, I know if I can say that, sort of girl that wanted a horse and we couldn't afford a horse and all that sort of stuff. And there was stable yards down the road. And frankly, it wouldn't be allowed nowadays, would it? Because you might call it sort of child labor. But effectively what they did, you know, bear in mind this is 35 years ago, right, Laurence? So let's set the timeframe. You know, they said, oh, no, come and work for us and basically muck out the horses and you'll pay me.
and it's to ride them and we were like nailed it. Like, you know what mean? We thought we'd absolutely made it. There was about eight of us that did it and we thought it was great. And sort of looking back on it, you're like, it's great because your parents didn't have to look after you on a Saturday. So they were delighted with it. The kids were delighted because they were like, we're riding horses for free. You sort of forget that you're doing manual labor for the sort of the joy of it. And the stables were like, well, this is fantastic. So kind of a win-win everywhere basically.
Lawrence (02:47)
It's just a
shame that that sort of work methodology wouldn't wouldn't work now, would it?
Helena (02:52)
No,
mean absolutely not. mean health and safety for starters, mean God knows what would happen right?
Lawrence (02:58)
You can't
pay your you can't pay your mortgage by cutting a hedge or you know, mucking out something. Wouldn't that be good? Maybe we should maybe we should start something new. This is this is how we go. So after that, listen, you also mentioned that you you moved into recruitment, is that right?
Helena (03:02)
I would love that. That would be delightful. I'll check if Santander will do that for me.
Yeah, I like it.
Yeah, so I did the typical, well, it's not typical now, but it was then, know, A-levels, uni, crikey, what do I do now? I'll do recruitment because my mate sort of went to me, well, you're good at talking to people. And I went, yeah, all right. And then off you go. And you're sort of 20 years old, aren't you? Working in London. And that's how you started. And I've been in recruitment ever since because I still...
head up talent acquisition here as well. But yeah, so it's been a theme throughout my whole life.
Lawrence (03:47)
Okay. And when did the financial services sector kind of spark your interest? Or was that just did that organically happen or did you actively start
Helena (03:55)
Yeah,
I would say it was sort of organic. mean, my first ever role was in secretarial recruitment in the city, so in Moorgate, and you were recruiting for the big banks. So it was Goldman, RBS, cetera, et cetera. I mean, we're talking, Lawrence, I was thinking about this this morning as I was walking to work, we shared a computer. We were faxing CVs, okay, and we had all of our data on a Rolodex, right?
Lawrence (04:20)
Yeah, love a love of roller
decks and a fact.
Helena (04:22)
Yeah,
and I think, you when I talk to people nowadays and like you just remember stuff, right? Like that's just your nature. And they're like, sorry, let me just check. And I'm like, how do you not know this? Because when we were trained, you knew everyone's details. You knew what was happening. were, yeah. So, but because we were sort of working with banking, I've always been around it. So it's always been sort of stuff that I knew. And then I slowly moved out of recruitment agencies and then I moved into onsite. So I moved to RBS.
And then after that I moved to Santander and then I did a stint in Barclays as well. So at that point it was sort of where I was used to.
Lawrence (05:01)
I see. Did you do the any of the financial advisor qualifications or how how have you progressed in terms of training that way? Right. Okay. So so your role as you know head of private wealth at Foster Denovo tell me a little bit about that. How did that come about?
Helena (05:09)
No, None whatsoever.
Yeah, I mean that is, I suppose, the biggest career turn that I've done. And I'd just like to correct you, it's director of Private Wealth Lawrence. So I joined, I sort of finished, I was the head of exec recruitment for Santander and ran that division. And then I came out of it and I thought, do you know what, actually, I don't want to do banking anymore, I want to try other things. So I went and did some self, some contract work. And then I got a role at Foster Denovo and it was contract.
Lawrence (05:34)
Okay.
Helena (05:48)
and it was literally recruiting self-employed and employed financial advisors. And I thought, well, I know wealth management. I've dealt with it in Barclays. I went through RDR and Santander, you all of that sort of stuff. So I knew it. I'd run FPMs. And so all of that world, I sort of thought, I know this. And then coming into it and recruiting for it was a whole different ball game. But I sort of said to, I sort of said to Roger, who's my CEO, I said, look, this isn't really, it's not a big enough job for me. Like I'm used
Lawrence (05:52)
Okay.
Helena (06:17)
to quite big jobs and he sort of just went, just you know, do what you're used to and it sort of went from there. So I was recruiting self-employed and employed advisors but it's quite a lonely role. So what I was, I became the sort of linchpin for them within the organisation. So they would come to me for everything. So then I started supporting them. Then I started looking at their loan agreements. Then I started looking at their books of business. Then I started doing some sales training with them and it just sort of grew and grew and grew.
And I took a sort of, I suppose that was the turning point, like a segway where, you know, Helen, who's the MD, and Roger said, look, it's director of private wealth now, you're running the gig, this is what you're doing. And I was like, ooh.
Okay, I mean, sort of, you know, when it sort of happens organically, and then you sort of get the title and then I was sort of a bit like imposter syndrome, what's happening. And they said, well, you're doing it. And I was like, I suppose I am really, do know what I mean? So, and I think that was one of the biggest challenges I've probably had is running, you know, I've got 91 advisors, self-employed, employed and acquisition. So I manage all of them. And, you know, the average age is, you know, 54. I mean, it's coming down, which is
great
news and then I'm here. I know so we're getting there slow and steady wins the race at the moment but I sort of thought goodness you know how am I going to be telling these guys that have been doing it for 30 years what to do and how to do it and why are they going to listen to me and
Lawrence (07:27)
It was fifty it was fifty eight.
Helena (07:44)
And I think it's just through relationships and who you are as a person and being really honest and transparent with people that it just works. I mean, I've got, I thinking about this, I've got advisors that phone me up and they're over 60 and they're like, oh, I just wanted to talk to you boss. And I'm like, right. And they're like, I've just done a whole of life case, it's this. And I was like, okay, well done. And they're like, I just wanted to let you know. And I'm like, how has this happened? But it has and I love it. But yeah.
Lawrence (08:12)
So you and you've been at Foster Denovo for how long now?
Helena (08:14)
Gosh, I think it's about eight and a half years. Yeah.
Lawrence (08:17)
Okay, okay.
So that's a fairly that's quite a quick, I think, transition from, you know, entering the company to to becoming director of
Helena (08:25)
Thank you very much, well noted. Yeah, no, absolutely. I I
sit on the leadership team. I now sit on the exec team as well. Yeah, it's, and when I talk to sort of my friends and colleagues who are in recruitment or L &D and that side of stuff where I've come from, it's quite a rare move that somebody moves out of the recruitment space or talent acquisition or whatever we want to call it and into a much more commercial role. It doesn't tend to happen that way. So,
I think I'm a bit of an outlier, but it's only testament really to Foster de Nova and what they saw in me and how they thought this could work. And that's kind of how we are really.
Lawrence (09:04)
So how it's obvious for me, what you've described shows a an immense amount of I think self-awareness and drive to to get stuff done, which is, you know, I think old school.
You know what I'm talking about. And and and I just wanted to, you know, ask you, you've obviously been given a a great platform and I think the space to to move forward, develop, etc. Have there have there been have you had any mentors in the past or at you know Foster Denovo that have, you know, really given you a springboard at all?
Helena (09:17)
I do, I do.
Yeah, I mean I would say probably two. I would say my first ever boss.
who was brilliant, I'm still friends with her now, we just came back from holiday. And she was really, really good, because it was, yeah, I'd come out of uni, I was all sort of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, and she sort of taught me how things work. And it was in an era where you worked really hard, and you were rewarded for what you did, you know what I mean? You're commission-based, all of that sort of stuff. But also the value and ethics behind recruitment and being honest and all of that. I mean, she was fantastic. And I would say my boss now, who's
Helen, who's the MD, she is really, really good at developing and she'll tell me off when I need to and that happens a fair amount, Lawrence, but she'll praise you, she'll back you, do you know what mean? And I think I've learned an incredible amount from both of those and they just both happen to be women as well, so.
Lawrence (10:31)
Well, you know,
all power to it. And of obviously on the back of that, that mentorship that you've received, do you do you offer the same to your team?
Helena (10:41)
I do and I think I have a really eclectic team, I would say, right? And I learnt this when you first start sort of managing and then leading people.
you sort of have to learn that diversity is key, right? Because if everyone's built the same as you and you're taught about unconscious bias and all this sort of stuff and all that in recruitment, but if you don't have people that are different to you, you're just going to run into the same problems, you know, and I struggled with that when I first started managing people because I go somewhere really fast, so I'll get to the end of a problem quite quickly, but other people work differently and I hadn't quite worked that out. You know, some people are much more analytical, a lot
people like to do the research, some people are detailed based, whereas I'm like, come on now, what's the answer now? And I think that's put me in really good stead because I've got people on my team that do people development for my advisors, I've got people that are more compliance based or super technical, I've got MI guys, I've got data analysts, etc. And they all work differently, but they all complement each other and what we do. And that's the way to get a good team. And so that's how I
Lawrence (11:29)
Yeah.
Helena (11:53)
try and lead them, that you have to lean into what your strengths are and pull away from what you're not good at. I'm not good at detail. Everyone knows it. Somebody opens a spreadsheet, I might black out. I don't know, right? It's just not my strength. But I've got people in the team that do that. And I think that's how you have to develop people to lean into what they're good at and stay away from what you're not good at. There's somebody else in the business that will do that for you.
Lawrence (12:09)
Yeah, so
Yeah. No, understood. No, I th I mean that that makes sense, but obviously your your experience within recruitment has given you that skill set to, you know, be able to identify the right individuals to to build a team. I imagine that's not a quick process though. is it does it take a while to actually build the team? Do you feel that you need to have a a maybe some recruitment experience in order to really get the best out of out of people?
Helena (12:46)
I mean, to be honest with you, Lawrence, most of my team have come from internally. So as my role has developed, and I'm just, you know, I sort of see something over there and I think, I'd quite like to be involved in that. And then they're like, well, actually, this person works on that aspect. So, you know, I've got a chap on my team that looks after consumer duty and fees and proposition. And I was like, I think that should probably sit within my team. And we're like, great. So I've sort of inherited him. So I've inherited quite a lot of people, which,
Lawrence (12:51)
Okay.
Helena (13:16)
an interesting way of doing it because they might not always be the people that you would actually choose for your team but once you start working with them you go I get it it makes sense you make sense to me and I think that's a really nice way for a relationship to blossom because I think sometimes we look around businesses and you sort of go what does that person do or what are they for when they start working with you and you go I get it now like I see I see how useful they are so but yeah I mean recruitment
puts you in good stead for everything if you're good at it if you're not good at it then you could be in trouble
Lawrence (13:51)
enough. Do you feel that Foster Denovo has that core methodology of recruiting from within? So the organic the organic growth. Is that a
Helena (14:04)
Yeah, I
we very much and I put that in place when I joined, we very much would only recruit at a lower level and then we would grow and develop our people. So that's absolutely the stance that we have. I mean, obviously there's a few positions where you're not going to have the internal, know, so we've, know, head of data and MI, you know, we didn't have somebody, so you look externally, but generally we will recruit from within because it's loyalty, it's people know the business, you know, we're really good at developing
our people are actually going, do you want to be involved in that? Well, come and do a project here and see how you like it and see whether it works for you. So that is kind of a bit of our mantra here.
Lawrence (14:43)
No, that's great. And I did I think if I'm right, your one of your strap lines there is culture is king. Is that correct? Tell me a little bit. Tell me tell me more about that.
Helena (14:50)
Yeah, no, that's...
Yeah, mean, culture is absolutely a king for me. And I think it always has been and it always has been at Foster Denovo. And it's something I saw very, very early on. So when I first started recruiting advisors, know, advisors can be different and eclectic. And there's a lot there's lots of different ones around. And, you know, I used to say to Roger, used to say, look, I'm not going to recruit like 10 of these guys. If they don't fit, you know, if you've got one bad apple, it's not going to work for
Lawrence (15:22)
Yep.
Helena (15:24)
And that also follows through with our admin, with our para planning, with our marketing. Like we are very much
Lawrence (15:23)
Yeah.
Helena (15:31)
I thought we've we've got platinum investors and people. Nobody else has that. It's 2 % of companies have that. And that is really about not just saying you're going to do stuff, proving that you do it. Let's show me the stats, etc. So it's a really hard thing to get, but that is all around your people and your culture. And it is is paramount. And I think one of the things that we worry about or can happen is people grow their business and they forget about
the culture and that's problem especially in our industry where people are acquiring all the time you know if the culture doesn't fit the acquisition won't fit the people won't fit like it's so important in what we do
Lawrence (16:00)
Okay.
So only two percent you're saying only two percent of advisory
firms have IIP status, is that what you're saying? Of companies. Well that's wow, that's platinum, right. That's that's not a big that's not a big margin at all. So
Helena (16:20)
of companies. Yeah. IIP Platinum, which is the top. Yeah.
it's really hard and you have to go through the process every three years to re-validate, et cetera. No, it's quite impressive. Our NPS scores are really, really high for the industry. We really value what we do for our customers, but also internally. Because if internal doesn't work, external doesn't work.
Lawrence (16:47)
Okay.
No, I I I absolutely I agree with that one hundred percent. But you know, for me that I find that really fascinating because obviously investor in people, the nurturing, the culture that you clearly have there, apart from that, which is you know amazing, what else does the business do that you know, or provide or offer that other advisory firms don't, would you say?
Helena (17:12)
Gosh, what do we offer? I don't know, I think...
Lawrence (17:15)
is the USP of Foster Denovo for example, if if there is one?
Helena (17:18)
I would think everything stems from our culture, honestly. I mean, that is the key thing. We are...
Lawrence (17:21)
Okay.
Helena (17:24)
a facilitator in the business. know, we acquire firms, but we also look at organic growth. I would say we're a little bit the last man standing in London is how I feel because we're a shareholder owned firm. So every single person in the business has shares. So from our reception and admin up to our equity partners, everyone has a stake in the business and we're not a network. So it really drives home. Everyone's gunning for the same goals.
And that creates a really big difference, I think. You know, our partners, whether they're self-employed, employed, acquisitions, everyone is working towards the one goal. And I think that then flows out in everything that we do.
Lawrence (17:54)
Yeah.
No, I know that's that's true. I don't think there aren't that many businesses operating that model. I know John I know John Lewis does, but they're not in finance. So but you know again that seems to that seems to work fantastically well, I think. so so yeah, that's great. so what's new at the moment for Foster Denover? You mentioned a few minutes ago that you've you've you've brought in a a data
Helena (18:12)
No. No exactly.
Lawrence (18:34)
a data buyer. what what's new? What what is what's what's new there?
Helena (18:38)
So.
Gosh, where do I start? What's new? I mean, I suppose at the moment, and hopefully people may have seen that we've done, we are very AI driven or focused. So we have gone, and this is my MD has driven this really well, and that's really her baby. We are now on a native AI platform. So we are getting rid of, or we are about to get rid of our CRM completely. So people talk about, you know,
AI strategy. Well, you shouldn't have an AI strategy. You should have a growth strategy that involves AI. This is where people get themselves wrong. And we've done that. And we have looked at the business. We've partnered with Palindrome, who are phenomenal. And we are building this whole agentic platform for ourselves. So it's very exciting. We are really ahead of the game at the moment, right? So there's no one else building this. There's no one else doing this at the moment.
Lawrence (19:15)
Okay. Okay.
Helena (19:39)
A lot of wealth management firms will say, we're using AI and it's like, and they're like, well, we're using a note taker. It's like, okay. Whereas, you know, and other ones will have a data lake and they'll be pulling numbers from that, et cetera, or they'll have created their own ATR or, but we're doing the whole gambit basically. So it's changing the way we do things, which is really, really exciting. We're not going to be ahead, you know, in the next two years, people will catch up with us, but currently what we're
is really, really thinking forward. Yeah, it's very exciting, as you might have told.
Lawrence (20:16)
No, that's no,
I could s I could see that. I have a I have a fairly divisive view on AI. So I it was intriguing to to hear you mention that. I don't know if I'm allowed to say. So I find I find it a I find it a distraction at best. I've always had a slogan for the last three decades that people are the source, technology is the tool.
Helena (20:23)
Okay. What's your view on AI?
Well, podcast do what you want, Lawrence.
Okay.
Lawrence (20:42)
in other words, people come first. and I feel that the with the advent of AI, and don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of you know how it can help and minimize those arduous admin tasks, of course, when that is a tool. and I think that's about as far as I believe it it should be it should be implemented. I actually I made a comment or I wrote a post a while back where I said AI is
Helena (20:43)
Yeah, of course.
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence (21:09)
akin to a primate using a rock to smash open a hard shelled fruit.
Helena (21:15)
Okay.
Lawrence (21:16)
the rock being the AI, it's just a tool. Do you concur with that or do you or do you feel it's a little bit more
Helena (21:18)
Hmm. Yeah, but that's what it is, though.
No, that's what that's I mean, you're not wrong, you know, we will never and it really frustrates me when people say, oh, it's gonna get rid of all our jobs. And, you know, what's going to happen to advisors and I'm like, what do you mean? Like advisors are just going to get better. You know, being a financial advisor has always been about relationships and trust. That's where it is. Okay. Now, yes, you will get AI that can do the technical side, right, but it doesn't have the judgment. It doesn't have the all it has is the knowledge, it doesn't have the situation. So we
always need to be doing that and I think you know any good advisor will just get more efficient and have more capacity. I spoke to one of my advisors the other day and you know he's a bit long in the tooth and he's great and I said you know you're writing loads of new business at the moment this is fantastic I said what's going on not being rude but what's happening here and he said well I've been using the I've been using you know some of the AI kit and he said it's just giving me more time to really look at
clients files before I go to the meeting and really look up the opportunities and what we should be doing with them as opposed to rushing from meeting to meeting not having that time and missing what should be helping the clients. That's where AI is going to help us. The relationship will always be paramount and we use the agents as a digital assistant, right? That's what it does for you. So I don't ever think that it will go any further than that. You you always
Lawrence (22:38)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yep.
Helena (22:50)
need people to talk about human in the loop and even with compliance and all of that side of stuff you still need to check it like it still needs to be regulated and looked at and it only knows what you're teaching it right so I don't disagree with you I think we're saying the same thing but we just you know and I think it's interesting I was talking to a chap the other day about behavioral influences and and how people psychology around investing which I find fascinating and he was saying well we need to be very careful about AI because
Lawrence (23:01)
That's exactly
Helena (23:19)
it can't just make us more efficient, right? Because clients value...
the time and effort we put into things. Everyone does. Like if I do something and somebody comes back to me within two minutes, I'm a bit like, have you done enough research on that? Do you know what I mean? But if somebody takes a day or so to come back to me says, right, I've had a look at this and I've done this report, this is where I am, I sort of go, great, okay, you've taken some time, you've taken some effort. So we need to make sure that what AI is doing for us is giving value to the client and not just giving us more time efficiency. That's the key, I think.
Lawrence (23:32)
Yeah.
I agree I I do see that, you know, but you know, as you mentioned just a few minutes ago that it has the knowledge, but it only has that knowledge because it's been programmed by people. This is and you know, for me I the human element is something that again I bore people with all the time because, you know, AI it it can't it can't notice that slight facial expression or, you know, change in mood or or, you know, energy. It it can't do that. Not yet anyway.
Helena (24:00)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence (24:19)
You know, it's and so for me, you know, the certainly the business that I worked in and etc. is it is all about people. So when I hear AI, it just I does I do groan, I have to say, because it's just, you know, I feel it's a distraction and people are concentrating too much on it rather than, you know, being all for me, it is just a tool. So use it as a as a tool. And I do get that what you're saying that the whole point of the AI is to
reassign extra time so that the advisors can have more people time. But for me that's just what an AI software salesperson would tell you. you know, because it's good. Good. Well good. This is the that's the whole point of it. You're supposed to. As I said, it is divisive. So
Helena (24:56)
I don't know, Lawrence, we're gonna disagree on this one, because I'm already seeing it in our business, Yeah.
No, I mean, I really, I'm very excited about what we're doing. It's giving people, you know, we're not making anyone redundant, no one's losing their jobs, et cetera. People are getting more interesting jobs. People are getting more human jobs. They're not doing mundane jobs anymore where they're chasing an LOA or they're doing that sort of stuff. Do know what I mean? They're doing more client-based work. know, my boss will always say to me, you our admin staff are called Client Experience Execs, okay? And nowhere in that title is the word admin.
And it shouldn't be because it's about client experience and you know delivering a really excellent service to their clients. That's what the AI is doing for them. Do you know what I mean? With my advisors, you know, it will get to a point where you know the AI bot will be able to look into the system and say this is some opportunities that you may have missed. These are several things. Well, how is that not a good thing? That it's telling you this is what your client might need. Have you discussed this with your client? It's not going and discussing it with your
client but it's giving you the tools and the skills and the knowledge exactly of what you might be able to do. That's where it's going to come into its own. Humans, I agree with you, humans are always, it's the relationship, it's the trust, it's all that side of stuff which we've always called financial advisors trusted advisors, right? And that's what they are. So that's never going to go away.
Lawrence (26:08)
From
It has to be.
So you do you feel that there will be for Foster Day Novo, for example, with the system that you're currently implementing or working on, will there be a ceiling of activity where you will kind of put the brakes on or will you, you know, again embellish or you know, develop more the AI that you currently you know you're currently working on?
Helena (26:46)
Well, I don't know if I'm entirely honest. I'm not as close to it as other people are, so I don't want to say, but I mean, I think we will continue in this vein until we get to where we need to be, and then we'll see the developments. I mean, I was talking to Ed Beckett, who created Palindrome, the company, and I said, what's going to happen? You know, because we've had this, you in the last two or three years, this boom around AI, haven't we? It's this hype and this bubble that everyone talks about. You know, he was saying that this has been going on since the 50s.
Lawrence (27:13)
Yeah, cool.
Helena (27:16)
into the foray now and I said well what's going to happen in the next two or three years and he said well look not a wild about more there's sort of a couple of phases we've got you know LLMs then we've got a agentic AI and then we've got you know one more one more stretch but after that he was like I don't know where it's going to go from there and will it go any further so I think at the moment you know Symphony which is our core system you know once it's running now etc and we're just looking at all the bots and everything inside it we'll see where we go from that
E.
Lawrence (27:46)
Fair enough. I just wanted to know if there was a
where do you draw the line kind of kind of situation r rather than it you know running away with itself, you know. So that that was that was kind of really the question. and in terms of like you say the let's say the competitors should we call them that, you know, the other advisory firms, you say you're you're a few years, two or two or three years ahead of them already, how was that come about? Because as you said, there are larger
Helena (27:56)
Yeah.
Lawrence (28:13)
you know, advisor is out there. how how is the how has that come about?
Helena (28:18)
Yeah, I mean, think this is Helen's world now, so I'm overstepping slightly. But I mean, think we were just ready for it. We got introduced to Ed from Palindrome and he just sort said, you know, he's chosen wealth management because he felt it was an industry that was ready for more efficiency, which absolutely is anyone that works and they will know that, right? Okay. It's so antiquated in the processes, et cetera. And I think we just had, Helen had the vision that let's go for this, right?
Lawrence (28:37)
Okay.
Helena (28:47)
And I think we are the size of firm, you know, we're just under sort of 500 people, right? So we still have that sort of fleet of foot to be able to change quite quickly. And I think realistically now you've either got the sort of huge consolidators where it's too much for them to try and embed something that's all encompassing because you've got, you know, you've got AR firms running around all over the place trying to get that into one place. I mean, you saw what Consumer Duty did with half of those guys, right? They were trying to pull it.
pull everything together. And then the other side is that you've got really small firms and A, do they have the desire to adopt it? Do they want to adopt it, etc. So I think we're in a bit of a sweet spot with our size, but also because we had the vision or Helen had the vision to look at this and want to do it.
Lawrence (29:34)
I see. I mean that's an interesting point you make on the actual demographic of a business, the e.g., the size of it. I I get, you know, you know, most I think financial ad advisors are it's a cottage industry. A lot of them are, you know, one person outfits. so I imagine, you know, their drive to implement something like AI or, you know, that sort of thing would would not be, I suppose, as focused or as driven as
you know, as as foster Denovo there. So but it's interesting again, as you say, the the larger firms, I imagine that must be it would be a hectic hectic scenario to try and like you say, collate everything into into one place. So
Helena (30:16)
Yeah,
well I imagine so. mean, look, we all know, I I've only got 91 advisors and it's like herding cats. Do you know what I mean? So everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion, et cetera. So when you're looking at some of these bigger firms, you know, to try and get process and adoption of a process implemented across various different businesses and all that, I mean, I don't know how they, I don't know how those guys do it.
Lawrence (30:37)
Right. I was gonna say, okay. I mean your ninety one advisors, it does say a hundred and twenty three on the website by the way.
Helena (30:44)
I'll tell you
for why, because we have two businesses. So we've got Foster Day Nova Private Wealth, which is my area, and then we've got SecondSight, which is our employee benefits business. And we have advisors that sit within that business as well.
Lawrence (30:50)
Okay. Okay.
huh.
Okay, so you don't look after that side of it or you just
Helena (31:01)
No, I
don't. So we've got a chap, Matt Mitten, who is the equivalent on my side who looks after second site. Yeah.
Lawrence (31:07)
Okay. So
to not only to you are offering obviously support, compliance support as well to your your advisors, is that right? Okay. Okay. So, you know, if they need something, they they come to you. so and you distribute that. What how do you I mean obviously you've said Yeah, well you sound busy and I just wanted to listen, you've got ninety-three, you know, advisory, you know
Helena (31:16)
Everything is in-house.
Yeah.
How does it work?
Yeah. Yeah.
Lawrence (31:32)
partners
to to to speak to and and give a cuddle to, how are you managing?
Helena (31:36)
Yeah,
well, badly probably.
Lawrence (31:39)
I mean you must you must have
very big arms to to cuddle all those things.
Helena (31:42)
Wow.
Do you know what? I always say to people, I always joke that I don't have any children and now I've got 91. So it's, do you know what? I love my job and I think it's, it is tough, but it's really rewarding. But we do look after them. And because we're not a network, because everything is in-house and that's sort of, as I said from the beginning, how my job came about because I became, because I recruited them. So I'm onboarding them. I'm doing their induction. I'm doing all of that, that they then sort of, I'm the person that they then come to.
So
even now, they will come and say, all right, I've got this compliance issue. One of my guys runs a concessions for a team, and they'll come and say, right, I need to do this. So it is busy, and yet we always want to be busier, right? And I think we're slightly different in the industry, saying what our USP is, is that we still look for self-employed partners, and we really, really want self-employed partners to join us. And I don't think there's a wild amount of companies
size that are doing that because a lot of bigger firms are converting people into employed businesses.
because obviously the revenue is better for them, right? That's the maths. Whereas what we look for is, know, an organic growth is absolutely king. But what we look for is self-employed partners that want to join us, grow with us, use our infrastructure so they don't have to worry about all of the admin and nonsense that goes around it. They can just go out and see their clients. And then at some point when they decide to retire, they sell their business back to us. So it's a really nice model and we're constantly
I mean, I've just...
I've just taken on two or three, but we're constantly looking for people that want to join that sort of place where culture is important, client is obviously at the centre of everything. They want to have a voice as well, so I feel like with my advisors, I run lots of different forums, but we make sure that I've just put some fee changes in, but I don't just put a fee change in. I talk to everyone, I've done about four or five different sessions with them to get their feedback, to get their opinion.
therefore change what we were looking at. I think a lot of advisors sort of go to a firm and they get told, well, this is what you have to do, or this is how it works. Whereas I think here, they're really part of what we do. So, you know, as I said, I've changed the way I look to the fee structure. I was like, I want to do this. And I spoke to 10 of them, they were like, great. And had another cohort and they went, have you thought about the pension side of it? And I was like, no, that's a really good point actually, right? Let's have a revisit. So I think that's a bit unique as well, that people have the ability
to become part of everything that we do.
Lawrence (34:21)
Okay.
So what do you do then to promote the opportunity to get new advisor partners on board? What what marketing, what what do you do to to entice you know, new partners to join, if anything?
Helena (34:34)
this.
I suppose I...
I do quite a lot of external stuff. We do a lot of referrals from people. So obviously my current advisors, who do you know, where have they come from, et cetera. We use recruitment agencies, everyone does, to put out some attraction stuff, LinkedIn, it's all of the usual stuff. There's never a silver or golden bullet, is there, with recruitment? We all know that. There's never a way that is gonna work. I tend to work off referrals quite a lot. So when people have come and joined us,
Lawrence (34:42)
Okay. Such at
Helena (35:09)
and then they're happy, they recommend so and so and and and and. But yeah, mean, anything you can do to help me, Laurence, I'll be delighted.
Lawrence (35:17)
Well,
I do know someone who who has a boutique event business and they could potentially set you up with a very nice venue where you could invite potential I I I'm afraid I can't give that information out at the moment. and you could potentially invite a group of potential partners along and give them a presentation. But yeah, that's just you know my opinion.
Helena (35:27)
Who would that be, Lawrence?
Okay well okay thank
you noted.
Lawrence (35:41)
And if you were to use this priority lane podcast as a platform to invite you know, new partners, what would you what would you be saying? What message do you want them to hear?
Helena (35:54)
I the message would be that if you want to have a voice and you want to build your business without having to worry about all of the sort of gump that advisors have to do, know, onboarding a new client is a lot of effort, you know. I was talking to one of my young guys, he does about 250 of new business a year, and he's like, it's exhausting, Helena.
Lawrence (36:09)
Yeah.
Helena (36:15)
because there's so much paperwork, there's so much to do. So taking all of that away, we offer admin and power planning, that's here, that's all done for you, right? So you don't have to worry about any of that. And it's not a network where it's somebody on the end of a phone that you'll get every two weeks, it's they're in the office with you, you know what mean? Your compliance is here. So everything is here, and it's immediate. So there's no waiting on things, et cetera. So if somebody wants to grow their business, join somewhere where they can have a voice,
transparent. We're really, I mean it's me right, so we are straight down the line. There is no, you know and I think in wealth management we have a bit of a bad rep about you know saying that this is going to be the deal and then it changes and all the rest of it. I just don't partake with that. We're sort of very set in what we do and yeah I mean I just think it's a really good opportunity and we're growing and I've got young advisors, you get mentored by the older advisors etc. You get shares in the business, you immediately become part of the
business etc. So there's a load of stuff that I don't think a lot of other firms are doing and training and development and all of that is all done in-house as well so there isn't much that we don't offer.
Lawrence (37:26)
It does I mean sounds a very comprehensive and as you know, as you mentioned, there are obviously other firms that also, you know, they have partners, et cetera, but that perhaps don't offer the you know, the the shareholder side of you know option, which which is a I think is a is a great is a is a great asset without a doubt. Well, you know, is there any advice, for example, what you would give to any youngsters or younger people perhaps than us coming into the industry?
Helena (37:34)
Yeah.
It's a great occupation.
And, you know, I always think back to when I was young, I can't even say young, it's just young now. And I always think back and I think, you know, investment banking was where everyone wanted to go, wasn't it? That's what everyone wanted to do. once that, yeah, but wealth management always had a bit of a bad rep, really compared to, everyone wanted to be in banking. Nowadays, it's really changed. There's a lot more people going wealth management is a great occupation. It's you give back, like you feel it's quite, it's not out
Lawrence (38:08)
But that was about money, surely.
Helena (38:25)
obviously because people get paid and all the rest of it, but it does give you that sense of you're helping people and it's really satisfying and I don't know if people understand that and I would say, you know, we are so down on women in the business and actually I've got female advisors here and they are brilliant and people want to work with them and women feel more comfortable with them and there's such an opportunity for women, especially in wealth management and it's sad that
more, you don't see more women going into it. And we need to change that somehow.
Lawrence (38:58)
No,
I agree. I've always I've always championed that. and specifically you know, one of the main reasons is that, you know, I'm I'm not gonna beat about the bush, you know. Our female counterparts, you have a far higher level of empathy and you know, communication skills than than men. That's just you know, that's for me, that's DNA. That's the that's always been the case. So I do agree with you. And I think I can't remember what the percentage was. I thought it was only something like
eighteen or twenty percent.
Helena (39:27)
I don't
even know, I don't even think it's that much, which is, you know, when you think about, sounds bad, but women outlive men, as a general rule, so women are left with the money, right? So women like to talk to women. So there's a whole demographic of, you know, when you look at intergenerational wealth, you look at all of this sort of stuff, and it just, I don't know.
what the issue is as to why more women don't want to do it because they're so good at it. As you said, the empathy, the relationship building, all of that is so much higher and it just doesn't seem to translate. How can we fix it, Lawrence?
Lawrence (39:56)
agreed.
isn't that I isn't that gonna be tricky though, obviously with, you know, the the plethora of changes in inclusion and diversity areas, you know, suddenly, you know, for example, Foster Denovo and other advisory firms or any any business, they can't just go, Listen, we need more women. because you then you'll be seeing us excluding
Helena (40:27)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Lawrence (40:32)
other other, you know, parts of the of the the community, which will then have a negative effect, which I find ridiculous personally. because, you know, if you need to augment some part of for example, the financial services industry where women don't make up a you know a great percentage, why can't you promote that?
Helena (40:37)
you
Well, I think, do you know, and we've had this in recruitment, and we have it in banking all the time where you need a quota, et cetera. I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is that women aren't going into it. They're not choosing it as an occupation or as a voc- It just doesn't seem to be on their radar. Whereas when I talk to, you know, I get loads of graduates and stuff emailing us and coming through to us and all the rest of it.
I would say 95 % of them are men. I've got my admin staff here in the office and we offer an academy, et cetera, where people can learn and develop and become advisors and all of that sort of good stuff. And I, in the last three years, haven't had any of our female admin want to join.
Lawrence (41:15)
Okay.
Helena (41:31)
And we are a female led business. Our leadership team is about 70 % women. Our ex-co is 50-50. So we are very, very much driving from the front here. And yet still, it's not enough. So it's a real conundrum. And it's one of those things I don't know how to tackle, and I really want to. And I don't know what the answer is.
Lawrence (41:53)
Did you actually ask the question of those admin team who did what was their reason?
Helena (41:57)
Yes. I did.
Well, I don't know. They didn't really say anything. I was doing an induction and I said, look, you know, this is what we do. This is what we offer, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And I said, put your hands up in the room who, because our demographic is more female than male across the board, right? And I said, put your hands up who would want to be an advisor in the future. Four guys, five guys, none of the girls.
even after I'd given them the fuel. And I'm going, I'm the director of private wealth. And it just, it's baffling to me.
Lawrence (42:24)
House.
House and they just didn't give you a response why they wouldn't want to be an advisor?
Helena (42:28)
No,
no. And I think it's sort of into us a little bit like, you know, females tend to go down more the ops route, you know, the management route, side of things, whereas, you know, guys are exactly and I don't know if that's just still so inbuilt at the moment that we really need to break that somehow. I mean,
Lawrence (42:39)
Marketing, communications, etcetera.
Helena (42:50)
I think with the advent of AI coming in, I was talking to a chap who does recruitment for Goldman Sachs recently and he said they now don't look for grads with economics, maths, anything like that. They look for the BFCs, the BA honours, know, the geography, the... And he said they were interviewing people and they didn't and they thought, God, these are great. These are really great candidates. And they gave them a critical thinking test and no one passed because they couldn't use Claude. They couldn't use chat GPT.
Lawrence (43:19)
I I wouldn't I would fail horrendously.
Helena (43:24)
But I think that's where we're moving to. So I think actually maybe that shift will bring more women into the business because that is where we tend to go. I I studied philosophy for God's sake, do know what I mean? So I think that will help, but there's got to be something that we need to be selling it more, we need to be talking about it more. I don't know.
Lawrence (43:45)
Yeah, that well clearly the visibility or the engagement or even perhaps the attractive proposition of being an advisor isn't just isn't. It's not there. you know, and it it's I think in my head, being, you know, the aged individual I am, accountants, financial advisors, I always just I would have thought they were just bespectacled blokes at school who were good at maths and I just found you know a bit nerdy. And, you know, that's not that
Helena (43:55)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Lawrence (44:11)
Obviously that's not not the case. and every every individual I've spoken to on on this on this podcast previously has has said how people rewarding it is and how engaged you have to be and that they want to spend more time, you know, belly to belly effectively with their clients because, you know, that's that's what the role's all about and they get great satisfaction from that. and I've perhaps it's just not been
Helena (44:13)
Yeah.
Lawrence (44:38)
you know, publicly put out there that way. You know, it's still a fairly visually unrewarding position perhaps, rather than being something that's attractive and that look, you know, this is a this is a great career move. so I don't
Helena (44:50)
Yeah, I mean
we're hoping with a new style of academy that we're doing where we bring people on that we can change that. So we can start from the very, very ground up and bring people in to just start in that academy and try and get more females in that way, which I think will work. I know a few firms that do it and it does work for them and they've got nearly a 50-50 split of advisors, but it's very much grow your own. Of course, it's very long-term investment. Yeah.
Lawrence (45:02)
Yeah.
Helena, thank you very much for your time. You've been a breath of fresh air. you've been direct, which is always great for this podcast. so I thank you very, very much indeed for your time and you know we will we will catch up in the future. I've been Lawrence Dawnsey on the Priority Lane with Helena Bogdanovski of Foster Denovo and I'm looking forward to in interviewing my next guest very shortly. In the meantime, thank you very much and
Helena (45:22)
gosh.
Lawrence (45:44)
Have a great day, Helen.
Helena (45:45)
Thank you very much, Lawrence. Take care.